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About Edo nishiki

Discussion in 'Goldfish Breeds' started by SwedishNankin, Dec 9, 2015.

  1. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    Dec 9, 2015
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    Sweden, Stockholm
    After some googeling I discovered that this breed is only in calico. Is it the calico that makes it edo nishiki and if so, wich breed is the origin? Eggfish?
    What is a good edo nishiki? I find it hard o find information.
     
  2. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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    Dec 22, 2008
    Location:
    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    Edo nishiki is the calico variant of the ranchu. Therefore, a good Edo would have the same shape, conformation and tail of a ranchu with calico colors. To my knowledge, the development of the Edo has not reached that point yet but is progressing.
     
  3. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    Should it, or not, have wen then?
     
  4. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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    Yes, it should.
     
  5. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    Well damnit, now I'm pissed. Then they sent me the shittiest in the bunch -_-
     
  6. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    They are still nice calico eggfish!
     
  7. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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  8. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    I live in Miami Florida
    Can you show pictures, you may be surprised as to what you have. Remember calico's take some time before their true color manifest
     
  9. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    In comparison with what the petstore have in store around here these are specimens of championships. No kidding. Almost every fancy goldfish has defects. Most common is lacking parts of the fins (birthdefects, not damages). I have a calico telescope that don't have an analfin and almost 60% has as what I call a "fintwirl".
    So, in comparison I'm very happy with these.
     
  10. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    snyggingar2 - the day they came
    elisabeth3 - a week after
     

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  11. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    About a week after arrival
     

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  12. ranchumatt

    ranchumatt Hobbyist Breeder

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    Oct 29, 2009
    Location:
    Eastern Idaho
    I'm going to contradict Gerard just a bit here. Gerard, feel free to re-contradict me. :)

    Edonishiki ideally would have some wen growth, but it's fairly common for Edos (short for Edonishiki) to have less wen than ranchu. The fish you showed don't look out of line for Edonishiki wen to me. In true Edos, I have seen and owned many many fish with very little headgrowth, yet they were still acceptable Edos. I also bred Al Foster's Edo line for several years and many of them had substantial headgrowth. If you snoop around Japanese websites, you can find many examples of Edos with minimal headgrowth.

    It's important to note that not every "calico ranchu" is an Edonishiki, though some people use the terms interchangeably. Edonishiki is strictly a calico, dorsalless, short-tailed, Japanese variety. Structurally they are similar to a Ranchu, but I'm not sure the Japanese have strict Judging standards for Edos like they do for Ranchu (and as Gerard said, they certainly haven't refined the Edo to the extent of the ranchu structurally). Personally, I would not call the vast majority of calico ranchu an Edonishiki. Most calico ranchu are from China, and likely very distant genetically from the Japanese Edo bloodlines.

    ***IF*** the fish above are of Japanese Edonishiki lineage (I have my doubts about the kirin-looking one), I think they are acceptable as Edos, and I would not call them strictly eggfish. Their arched backs and wide tail spread distinguish them from eggfish (if you are using the term eggfish in a narrow sense.....in a broad sense, all dorsalless twin tails can be called eggfish).

    "Nishiki" is usually translated into English as "brocade", so most fish with "Nishiki" in their name, you would expect to be multi-colored. Edonishiki, kyonishiki, nishikigoi, etc............not so sure about hamanishiki. Maybe the originals were calico?

    On a related note, I have heard a couple different origin stories for Edos, most recently that they were derived by crossing Azumanishiki with Ranchu. I wonder how they ever got the blue back into the fish after a red/white metallic x calico outcross. Any ideas?
     
  13. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    So, in the end of the day, do I got pretty unusual fish? (In Sweden anyways lol)
     
  14. Big Red

    Big Red Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    South Africa
    I hope you guys don't mind if I chime in here :) I happen to breed Edo Nishiki and I agree somewhat with Ranchumatt: not all calico ranchu are Edo Nishiki. In a good bloodline, the head will have at least some head growth and will be red, preferably on the top. The body will have a sky-blue background with black, yellow, red as accents. The tail should be as black as possible. The overall shape of the fish should be as close to the ranchu standard as possible. Your fish are not bad at all SwedishNankin, I see some potential there, good luck with them!
     
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  15. Big Red

    Big Red Well-Known Member

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    12105852_10207463292081702_1095552350315204492_n.jpg
     
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  16. Big Red

    Big Red Well-Known Member

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    Here's one of my guys, he has a few faults but he's a nice specimen :)
     
  17. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    I see a lot in him from Mushimushi :D Another Edo (they ordered 4, I bought 2) is looking more like that. It had a nicer body, but too much white for my taste.
     
  18. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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    Matt, I don’t feel contradicted. It’s been a long time since I have seen an Edo in person. My point of reference is the Edos I had and got in the mid-90s from Neal McDonald who was running Two Birds on a Wire. Then, those Edos already had wide head but not much headgrowth. I don’t know if Al Foster’s line is from Neal McDonald’s strain but I thought that over that period of 20 years or so, the Edo would have improved in that particular feature. I think more recent development of this variety has been achieved by Judge (Soe) on this list. His fish show very nice headgrowth and conformation even at a young age but the calico colors are still not coming through from last I heard.

    One thing is certain, as pointed out by John Parker, good edos are very hard to produce. Many have tried and gave up.
     
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  19. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

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    SwedishNankin, don't worry! You've got some nice rare goldfish!
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  20. SwedishNankin

    SwedishNankin Active Member

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    Except that Mushi has swimbladderdisease.. :( I tried to get him better for over a week now. I put them in a 540 liter-tank today (maybe 270 gallons? We have different metric-system) and the problems came straight back.
    But since he's kinda unique and very beautiful in my eyes and that I for a long time longed to get him home I have so much guilty feelings for him.. I suffer also when he's belly goues up. It's not so bad that he's upside-down all the time, but every turn and every dive to the bottom ends that way.
    Maybe It'll get better when the tank is properly set and all the good bacteria is good again. In Sweden we have the good fortune that we can give them the water straight from the tap, no help needed. No chlor, no nothing. Very high quality water!
     

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