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Bottom Sitting After Water Change

Discussion in 'Goldfish Clinic' started by gillian, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    Hi everyone,

    I have been regularly doing 75% water changes every 4-5 days, but this time afterward and this morning, they seem calmer and some are sitting on the bottom. I read on two different links that it could be either shock and they will hopefully pull through or that it could be an ammonia spike and I need to do another 50% change.

    I did all this at midnight last night and it's 7 am here. And, I did squeeze and rinse the sponge this time from the filter this time because it was looking nasty. Could this have caused an ammonia spike?

    The only other thing I did different this time was use prime this time instead of stress coat and add a new silk plant.

    Also, I am headed to work right now and won't be back for another 6 hours. Yikes! I have no choice but to leave now to get there in time. Will they make a few more hours?

    :please:
     
  2. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    did you check the temperature discrepancy? This is the killer most of the time. If you do 75% change, I don't see there should have a reason for ammonia spike.
     
  3. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    even if i rinsed the filter's sponge? i didnt think so either because it's still the same gravel and there's good bacteria in the filter itself still. and i didnt sterilize the filter sponge.
     
  4. HTH

    HTH DIY-er

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Location:
    Oklahoma Panhandle
    I doubt it ammonia unless you have something rotting in your tank. Instead of guessing get a test kit.

    As small_ranchu suggested how close was the tank and change water temperature ?
     
  5. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    i keep the tank heater thermometer set to 74. i think one bucket of water was a couple degrees lower and the other above. i should have noted it in my notebook. i always keep my notes down. they seem fine now, except for now i am dealing with one that has always been a little floaty. i've managed to control it, but today when i got back from work, she is worse than ever. i wrote in a different thread about that. http://goldfishkeepers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2719

    i know i need the test kit! I am kicking myself. I am off to petco now to snag a 55g for $55!!! dollar sale! And, am grabbing a kit too. i have a friend that is a serious aquarium hobbyist who gets great deals on products, but he forgot to get me the kit, so now i am in a panic because until now I didnt need one.

    i am new to goldfish and i think i get nervous about little changes. but i also work with animals and am trained to watch and look for early signs.
     
  6. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    I know I am not crazy. HELP!!!

    So just to rest my brain because I thought they were still kind of calmer after Friday night's water change, I went and did another a 50% now and I was extra extra careful with the temperature. My thermometer read 73 before, the bucket of water 73 and 73 after.

    Now they are all nestled together in the corner! The only big change from all the other changes I have been doing is that the last two changes I used Seachem Prime instead of Stresscoat because it is more recommended. Do they get accustomed to one, and go into shock if I change it?

    i used 1ml prime for about 7 gal. The bottle says a double dose is safe and this was slightly under. I have a wee bit stress coat left. Can I add it too? will that overdose them?

    I am panicking. Someone chime in please.
     
  7. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    i had .1% aquarium salt from friday's change (1tsp per gal). would it help to bump it up .1%? I read on koko's 1 tsp per gallon is .1%. That's correct right?

    ( http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/94546-on-the-use-of-salt/ )

    and now they are swimming around again, except for one chocolate who i never have had any issues with, just a hairline leaning to the side - almost barely noticeable, maybe it is because she is so still???
     
  8. *Ci*

    *Ci* Goldie Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Do you have multiple goldfish in a 7g tank? If so, there is the problem right there, IMO I think that you should switch to the new 55 ASAP.
     
  9. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    no way. I have 6 youngins under 2 inches in a 15 until our stand gets in for 55 gall. 7 gallons is what i changed.
     
  10. HTH

    HTH DIY-er

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Location:
    Oklahoma Panhandle
    :letsee:
    Most fish including goldfish seem to think that where the light is is up. Could it be reacting to the lighting. Does it lean the same way when it faces the other way.
     
  11. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    I checked and the light seems consistent across. A couple weeks back I thought I saw ich because I saw two white-ish dots on another's tail, but it was 2 sole dots and the next morning it was completely gone. What I read on forums & other aquatic sites, if it were ich, it wouldnt be just one little speck like that. So I tossed it up to either my scrutinizing or even a teeny piece of soaked BS resting on the tail.

    but then come to think of it RIGHT NOW (epiphany moment), about 2 days later after that scare, I thought I was crazy because I then saw one sole dot on this very same chocolate that is let's say calmer than the rest. And, these have been all pretty active swimmers since I have had them. Although this very moment, he is swimming more than after the change earlier, so maybe I am over scrutinizing. And, one of the larger goldfish seems to now have one scale missing on his body. I don't know if this has any relevance.

    Anyhow, there could be no harm in me bringing up the salt .3% over the next 24-36 hours would there be? Koko's says add another .1% every 12 hours and someone on here recommended that I do it every 6-8 hours (when I feared ich) for 2 weeks? I don't want to jump to medications, if a little salt can help.

    I just wonder if I over worry and maybe that is a good thing in the long run because they will be well-cared for and not taken for granted. I mean, is it normal to see things come and go, and their immune systems naturally take care of these small issues? Like us, when we get a scratchy throat one day and are completely healthy again the next day...
     
  12. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    Pic of missing scale guy

    Ok here is a pic I managed to sneak of the one with a missing scale (i think). She is one of the more robust and strong ones. Her colors are coming in and is turning out to be a gorgeous golden color. Could this be just a small scratch from a plastic plant or a bite? Will it heal in time?

    Picture 1. There's a note added above the spot. Hover over pic to catch it.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beanybird/8650766256/in/set-72157633249274222/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beanybird/8649667423/in/set-72157633249274222/

    (i couldnt see images in post, so i switched it to links to my pics on flickr.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  13. LadysSolo

    LadysSolo Breeder/keeper

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Looks more like an injury than ich. Ich dots are much smaller. Carolyn
     
  14. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    And that would heal in time right?
     
  15. shakaho

    shakaho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Check the pH of your tank and tap water. If they are significantly different it could be the cause of the distress after water change.
     
  16. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    still happening

    they still sit at the bottom after a 75-80% change. i am very exact with temp and the ph has been consistent. i have been doing it lately every 1 or 2 days because my tank just recently went through a cycle. why i dont know. they were doing this before it started cycling and still do. it stresses me out, because they all sit there staring at me and look unhappy after i change the water.
     
  17. LadysSolo

    LadysSolo Breeder/keeper

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    My goldfish always look a little "stunned" water a water change for a few minutes (I do 100% in the basement and 75% in stock tanks outside) but then go back to normal behavior. I think if that is their habit and then resume normal behavior that is okay. Remember, no matter how long they have been bred in captivity, in nature fish are "dinner" for bigger fish and other animals. It may be just reaction to disorientation after an influx of new water until they get adjusted. Carolyn
     
  18. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    this relieves me a lot. thank you. i work with animals and somewhere inside i am thinking ok maybe theyre just stunned because of the commotion. animals do get scared at times. although i get greeted upon initial entry with siphon. nibble nibble nibble. i even have to scoot them away (gently) because they get way to close to my siphon end. nonetheless, later they are okay. i think the few minutes in water not much deeper than their height freaks them out a little. i leave enough to swim easily, but it's shallow. maybe i need to take out a little less. i just like doing the 5 gallon buckets to the fill line because i can easily calculate prime and/or salt if needed.

    i am new to this, but have been really very cautious... so maybe i shouldnt worry so much about this one thing as much.
     
  19. allih

    allih Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Location:
    Northern California
    You really need to check the water parameters of your tank and tap. I am suspecting a pH issue here. Did you get that test kit? Please test the pH of your tank before a water change and then test your tap. Sometimes the water needs a gas exchange to happen and it effects the pH. You may be shocking your fish each giant water change because of a difference in pH.
     
  20. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    i did get it! I checked before and after. it is on the low end, i admit. it was 6.6 before and after. next day i went to petco and looked for ph up, but they ran out, so settled for the proper ph stuff and they only had 7.0. But in that they have been at 6.6 foreseeably for a long time (for months now), this probably was better than jumping them from 6.6 to 7.5. funny thing is, my next change after the first time using proper ph 7, when i did the test before hand, it was back down. i thought that stuff was supposed to hold it at 7.0.

    also, i must stress here that they didnt always react this way, only the last month maybe. and do seem pretty normal other times. and unless nyc water tap recently changed for the lower, it has been this low since i have had them. at any rate, i will try out the proper ph 7.5 (or would crushed coral do it better) to keep it proper now that i can test and be a mad scientist at home. i dont exactly trust the proper ph stuff in my gut, so will crushed coral be better?

    i am havign an epiphany here... is this low ph the reason my established tank recently went through a cycle?! { http://goldfishkeepers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=676 }

    (btw no driftwood in there. one nonreactive piece of slate type rock. i vinegar tested and only put it in this week)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2013

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