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Breeding Project: Ranchu x Wakin = Izumo Nankin. Assumptions vs Reality

Discussion in 'Breeding' started by Moose1414, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    No problem :) We have all been there. Either life gets in the way or you forget your password
     
  2. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    As it happened the wakin was ripe with eggs the morning I went away, I decided to hand spawn again and cross to all my remaining ranchu males [Minus the TVR who I sold to a friend]

    When I came home 5 days later I was pleased to discover I got a really good distribution of eggs to each container and good fertilisation, no clumping, minimal fuzziness on the unfertilised eggs, fry started hatching the next day and most are now free swimming.

    This time round i think I have at least 100 fry per cross. I did 2 batches with what I think is the best cross so maybe 300 plus for that. Also did a control batch cross to the calico fantail to see if any of those return partial dorsals because there was one random calico previously that had a dorsal spike who I don't know the father of. I've been kinda surprised how few full dorsals there have been previously coming from a female with full dorsal, wanting to see if that outcome repeats with a larger sample size.

    I think there is a good chance now that I will find more fry that have smooth backs at this F1 stage. Will raise these all pretty quick and cull everything with any sign of dorsal at the 2 week mark. Judging by how my earlier trials have been growing out these dorsalless wakin crosses will do a pretty good job at imitating the Izumo Nankin look, to my eyes anyway.
     
  3. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    You're getting all the action! Im STILL waiting for my Kirin butterfly telescopes to breed. My common, shubunkin spawn was a project to get me back into the breeding groove. Now im back and wanting to actively breed my fish I get nothing!
     
  4. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Hopefully this will be the last spawn I collect for a fair while, its a crazy amount of work really. Going round again just because this female just does not stop, I think this was something like the 8th time she's spawned since February. Usually I don't bother collecting but I thought I'd have another try because I want to find new homes for all my pet shop bought ranchu before I run out of room and focus on my fake nankins. This might be the last chance I get to play around with all those different genes before I close the door and begin sibling crosses. Hopefully having the wakin genes in there makes this cross fairly robust going forward, the more fragile egg shaped varieties seem from afar to be fairly poor breeders. A few of these farm bred ranchu imports I have seem like they'd be fairly hopeless at getting the job done if it wasn't for the hand spawning.
     
  5. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    My female common is like that. One meal of bloodworms and she's in instant breeding mode.
     
  6. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Egg tower. Moving all these batches to larger tubs tomorrow and starting on BBS. Started hatching from top to bottom which was interesting, guess the metal frame on the bottom kept that level slightly cooler.
    PA020488.jpg
    PA020623.jpg

    So just for those who don't want to read this thread through. This is the fish that to me was proof of concept from the first spawn, a wakin cross with a clean back and nice tail. Group spawn, father unknown.
    PA020509.jpg

    PA020541.jpg

    I then ran a small experiment with 3 of my males, a very small experiment really just 10 eggs or less per cross. The majority of them, like 90%, had incomplete dorsals. 2 had clean backs but the tails were pinched unfortunately. To me though these 2 gave me some encouragement that the cross could work, from top view the mostly white one is to me in the
    ballpark for a Nankin, having a more pointed head and triangular egg profile than many of the others.

    PA020611.jpg

    Not great from side view though admittedly. Though there isn't much reason to look at them like this because they are a pond fish.
    PA020584.jpg

    So in taking a 3rd and much larger spawn [and doing so in spring rather than autumn] I'm interested to see whether or not I can get a group that has the clean back of the first fish but with the coloration of the 2nd 2 and ideally the profile of the white fish. In the next few months I guess we'll find out whether or not that is achievable and get to see how those fish grow out. If it goes to plan, I'm going to say thats a pretty good outcome for F1 of this project that I went into really with no idea what to expect. I would not call these fish Izumo Nankin, they are an imitation only and different in many many ways. That was the inspiration though and probably the closest one could hope to get here in Australia. For now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  7. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    I really like both of the fish in the last two photos, especially when viewed from above. Those tail fin patterns are very pretty.

    Be sure to post some pics of how they look when they're bigger! Breeding projects are always exciting.

    -Kamran
     
    Moose1414 likes this.

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