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Breeding Project: Ranchu x Wakin = Izumo Nankin. Assumptions vs Reality

Discussion in 'Breeding' started by Moose1414, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    I have been silently following this and I have to say i have been thoroughly enjoying this. Once you get the line settled i would so get fish from you
     
    Moose1414 likes this.
  2. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Still learning all about colour, thought this one was solid orange at one point. Now white is creeping in

    PB120635.jpg PB120717.jpg PB120639.jpg PB120655.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  3. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    Goldfish fry are like Pokemon. They go though like 3 color changes. It's a very vibrant orange though. This fish will likely have some deep red as it gets older.
     
  4. SantaMonicaHelp

    SantaMonicaHelp Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    I always like how the tails look from above. You'd almost swear they were custom made.

    -Kamran
     
    Moose1414 likes this.
  5. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    That seems to be the case indeed,

    PB180692.jpg PB180672.jpg PB180793.jpg

    Some different single tails to the one I posted before, look pretty much the same from above. All dorsalless but some have better backs than others. To me this is an interesting way to carry forward some different ranchu genetics for possible future use, among these are offspring from the solid orange and black matt ranchu. Most of the Nankin prototypes are from either TVR or Red/White SVR. Having something different to outcross to in the group of single tails might prove fortunate at some point.

    PB180901.jpg PB180832.jpg PB180878.jpg PB180796.jpg PB180854.jpg
     
  6. Breann Thurman

    Breann Thurman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    If the gender ratio comes to favor hopefully the two babies with the cleanest backs are males. Maybe line breed them to a female ranchu to bring back the more consistant double tails and clean backs.
     
  7. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Only problem with that is I don't have any female ranchu :)
    But so far as gender ratio's go I think it'll be fine, I've got enough fish that there are bound to be enough males and females [touch wood] to work with. Female F1's can be back crossed to a male ranchu if required. For the moment I'm still hoping to get clean backs out of the sibling crosses if that works out next breeding season.
    My focus for now is slowly shifting more just to grooming and appreciating the fish I have so far and seeing how they develop as they mature, with an eye in particular to the ones who develop the least wen.
    In an ideal world, I'd only breed from one pair [judged to the the best pairing] out of the 10 keepers and only mix in the other options if needed. So ideally, the best fish for this line would be female and the 2nd and 3rd best fish would be males. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017 at 2:50 PM
  8. csoth1

    csoth1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I'm still really impressed with these results. I agree with the sibling cross of dorsalless F1s. I'd avoid breeding back to the ranchu unless absolutely necessary to not intensify the ranchu traits and would definitely not breed them back to anything with a dorsal.
     
  9. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks. Yeah I agree, I think that going back to the ranchu comes with too much risk of bringing a different head structure into the mix. Sticking with the F1's is to me mostly about that, hoping to wakins smooth head features concentrate down the line. I should get a good indication out of this backcross I did whether the F1's with partial dorsals are capable of producing dorsalless and in what ratio.
     
  10. csoth1

    csoth1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    @bkrhodesva should be able to provide insight into percentages based on his albino bubble eye project. I think you'll have an easier time than him though since he's essentially trying to breed for three traits by getting albino dorsalless fish with big bubbles. You're really just trying to breed dorsalless wakin at this point because tail set and shape seems to vary so much even within a spawns from fish of the same breed that it'll be easy to play with that down the line once you have good backs.
     
    bkrhodesva likes this.
  11. Moose1414

    Moose1414 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    Exactly this. Starting long and gradually working back toward egg shape is the way to go I think. And yeah already among my F1's i can see that each is slightly different in the body and head characteristics. The better tails a slightly more uniform and about where i want them to be.
     

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