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Fake Ranchus????

Discussion in 'Goldfish Breeds' started by Chubby, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Chubby

    Chubby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Are there fake ranchus out there? I bought some baby ones thinking that I will raise them for a few years until their wen grows out, but are these the ones that will not grow fat and grow wens?!?!?!

    [​IMG]

    I realize they are still pets, but I was shooting for a certain look with my tank...
     
  2. Chubby

    Chubby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Btw, I know the one in the back is a pearlscale^^
     
  3. danarea

    danarea goldiefanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    Washington state
    "Fake" isn't really the right term. Misinformed or just out and out dishonest are probably closer terms. If someone is not well versed in the differences between breeds they will often mistake lionheads as ranchu. To my eye, what you have is a lion head, and NOT a ranchu. A ranchu has an unmistakable curved back with a tail tuck. Lionheads have straight backs. Yours definitely has a super-stright back.

    As with anything, quality is everything. Employing certain grooming techniques will help get results, but you have to have good genetics, as well in order to achieve the look you see posted in photos on Google or YouTube.
     
  4. Chubby

    Chubby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Thanks-does that mean he will still grow a wen? I just want a big fat one with a wen....


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  5. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    It is pretty difficult at that stage.. you can try it..

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  6. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Improper conditions

    I think people get confused buying small Ranchu. If the head of the fish are bullet shaped when viewed from the top and are greater than >1" you are probably buying low quality or stunted stock. Growth of young fish to get the start of a "funtan" is critical or you get fish that may takes years to develop headgrowth. Also, sometimes LFS mislabel Shukins and Phoenix as Ranchu.

    If you are really interested in raising Ranchu, buy black babies ( BBR) from Eas Coast, for side view or from one of about ten top view people. These start coming available in March and last until June. It is quite fun to buy some 1/2" fish and have them develop and color up. Besides they are affordable!
     
  7. bigbettadan

    bigbettadan Professional Breeder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Location:
    Indy USA
    Yes that is a lionhead. But the back curve is not your main feature that separates them. Yes ranchu have a tail tuck or back curve, but lionheads have now been bred with curved backs as well. The head/wen and tail are the main factors in ranchu. There are plenty of articles on here on these subjects. Have fun.


    Dan
     
  8. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    I agree with Gary except Chubby is from South Korea. As far as I know, Asian country better goldfish source than we have. As Gary suggested, start from small and decent quality fish and move upward. Good luck..
     
  9. Chubby

    Chubby Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Thanks guys! I appreciate your experience and feedback. Unfortunately, Korea is a land where money rules above all else and it is hard to find quality here. I.e. Japan is willing to pay for quality whereas Korea is not so China gives lowest grade foodstuffs to Korea and the highest to Japan-then people cry foul when it's revealed that Chinese foodstuffs contain foreign substances-pretty well documented and sorry if this example was a waste of your time^^

    Anyways, so basically what I want to know is, will I be able to get some kind of head growth from my finless fish? I also bought a black ranchu and he has at least some signs of a wen growing but is smaller than the gold and white one. I'm currently feeding them a lot of bloodworms and am trying to get some gelatin to make some high protein food.

    One more question-what are the biggest factors to overcome stunted growth?

    Thanks for your responses, and I realize sometimes my questions may be answered in other posts, but I seem to suck at searching and finding them. Ithought it would be easier to ask you guyz. Hope you don't mind^^


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  10. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
  11. Chubby

    Chubby Member

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    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Thanks small ranchu! I'll keep looking! Are you a breeder? Why did you approach you? Just curious^^


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  12. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    I am not a breeder.. I am still trying to breed fish. He approached me five years ago when I was a starter..
     
  13. tijuanatoad

    tijuanatoad Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    You can't reverse a stunted fish. You can only prevent it. Large enough tank or pond without crowding; clean water with frequent 50-100% water changes; high protein diet (40-45%) and frequent feedings (3-6 per day) for the first year of life.
    From your pic, it looks like your using a 3 gallon plastic pet container which isn't large enough for 2 goldfish to grow properly.
     
  14. fantailer

    fantailer Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Location:
    USA
    I had the same issue two years ago, when I bought myself a lionhead from a pet store even after one year it never grew a wen. But I bought an oranda from the same place and it grew a wen pretty fast, so I geuss it just depends how old or how their conditions are.

    I have heard of eggfish that don't have dorsal fins or wens, but their tails are a lot longer and their really rare.

    I hope I helped!
     
  15. Chubby

    Chubby Member

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    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    South Korea
    Thanks guyz. According to the reading above-it said to promote wen growth, change the water about once a week so the fish would be less active so instead of the protein from the bloodworm going towards body growth, it would promote the wen growth. So my plan was to keep these fish in the 7g tub I am using as a quarantine tank, feed them 5 Xs a day(twice of which are blood worms) until they reach 4", and then transfer them to my main 40g tank so they can compete for food with my 6" Oranda.

    What do you think? 7g too small for them? Combined the two fish have a total length of 4".


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  16. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    Yes. It is very small. When we talk about less water change, it also required to maintain the water quality in an acceptable range. also fish need to swim to get exercise. Without getting exercise, fish MIGHT get wen but they will also get other bad issue for sure.

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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  17. Big Red

    Big Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Location:
    South Africa
    An important fact to remember: a dorsaless fish which does not meet ranchu standards IS NOT a lionhead by default. Just like the ranchu, the lionhead has a very specific set of requirements to be considered as such. For the British standards for the lionhead, see the Bristol Aquarists Society website. For the American standards, see the GSA website.
     

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