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Herpes

Discussion in 'Goldfish Clinic' started by kendal, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. kendal

    kendal Top-View Human

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    i have no sick fish thank goodness, but i believe i saw what looks like KHV on a carp at the local pond shop (fish brought in for treatment) and it kind of made me think about ever getting anything from this place again even thought the fish was in isolation.

    I have been reading up and finding a lot of conflicting information. i know it has come up before, but in searching i am not finding a good information-dense thread so i ask the experts to compile it here if they would be so kind for the benefit of all. all information i find is relative to koi not GF if we can let's keep this thread on topic and specific to GF so we can pin it.

    please outline and contrast the symptoms and prognosis as they apply to goldfish (not koi) for KHV (Cyprinid Herpes Virus 3), GHV (Cyprinid Herpes Virus 2), carp pox (Cyprinid Herpes Virus 1) and SVC.

    please discuss symptoms, and any possible treatments (i have read much about heat).

    i found the following chart, but it seems to have some contrary information to other sources. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm113#TABLE_1
     
  2. nygold

    nygold Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Location:
    Brooklyn NY
    I had a Ryukin with carp pox and none of my other fish were affected or infected buy it. But I did put the fish down. I didn't have the fish tested but the waxey lesions fit the description of carp pox.
    I posted the story and pictures a while ago here is another shot.
    Notice the white wax looking stuff on it's face.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Ask Blue belly

    Dave Mandley is the page absolute expert. We have two large risks in the GF world GF herpes virus which can wipe out and infect and entire fish room in a week and VHS.
    GF herpes is one that you can get domestically, but VHS can come in through importation or gathering fish from infected areas ( Lake Erie). While much of the audience was sympathetic to Paul when his fish were dying eberywhere, the experienced people were sending dying fish to vets to make sure they did not have VHS. Buying certified clean VHS free fish is really important.

    GF Herpes is treatable with salt and incubabtion at high temeperatures, even then losses are horrific.

    Documented VHS in the hobby could close idown completely to imports and possibly shipping from state to state.
     
  4. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    ghv

    I think Fertunna put a paper on here that I worked on in the initial diagnoses. Kendal maybe you can help me find it. I will get all the new info and put it here. Right now I am working with fish farms across the pond on this. Here in the US there is work on vertical transmission . To day I can tell you that KHV can be carried by goldfish. To this point we have not found the contrary although things change daily. If fish are dying in rapid succession[ eating and swimming and then in 10 seconds just die] I would suggest raise temperature to 84 degrees and add one teaspoon to tablespoon of salt per gallon. MUST keep them like this 14 days. Ten percent of the survivors will be carriers of the virus. Trigger temperatures are 55 to 65 degrees.
    There will always be GHV,KHV.VHS. and SVC in the great lakes, there will always be a temperature cold enough at some depth to keep the virus alive. Southern farms test positive for GHV in the spring and by mid summer it is gone. When we originally put a name to this disease we found frozen tissue samples and issue in formalin with the virus DNA from the Orient.,Australia and other countries dating
    back over twenty years. When looking for the virus" Every where we tested we found it" was a quote from a field researcher testing farms and distributors. I have a farm of fish that tested clear for many years and still does. I have used these fish for restocking other farms, problem is once they get to a contaminated distribution center they can become infected. Rapid change in temperature is crucial. An ice pack on a warm day lowers and raise the temp to fast. Same in winter with heat packs. GHV is not a virus that the government is concerned about, if that changes we won't see imports! Vertical transmission is in the egg from the female which can not be washed clean. GHV is like the eboli virus, the fish bleeds to death thru the gills.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  5. kendal

    kendal Top-View Human

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    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, Utah
  6. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

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    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    Goodwin/ Herpes---from Bluebelly p1-5

    Here is some good reading.
    This is the first 5 pages of ten.
    More to come...
    they are jpegs.

    Bluebelly
     

    Attached Files:

  7. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    more of Goodwin ---p6-p10

    This is the remainder of the pages.
    p6-p10

    They are jpegs.

    Bluebelly
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Dave

    Can you have your beter half send me hat as a pdf?
     
  9. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

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    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    Ghv/khv

    While vaccines are being used I am hearing from over seas that the fish are still dying from the disease. Not a full proof method for treatment or prevention at this stage of development.
     
  10. johnatoranchu

    johnatoranchu Ambassador

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    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    England, near London
    An excellent and informative paper at last based on scientific research rather than unsubstantiated comments.

    John
     
  11. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    Here is the complete article by Dr. Andy Goodwin..


    link to article


    Thanks Dave...
     
  12. VeiltailGuy

    VeiltailGuy Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Location:
    cleveland
    Thanx Dave! Very informative and interesting read!
     
  13. afertuna

    afertuna Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    Thank you Dave for posting this paper. I feel that the only we can move forward in the hobby is with knowledge.
     
  14. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    herpes virus

    There soon will be available in the US a vaccine or drug additive for Koi Herpes. I am told it works but not sure of the effect of the drug on the cured fish being carriers. GHV is as usual in the background, needing funds to go further. I have presented a genetic theory on ghv and its victims for the scientists to review.
     
  15. VeiltailGuy

    VeiltailGuy Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Location:
    cleveland
    Any news on how this would be administered?
     
  16. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    herpes virus

    For koi it will be a med that is mixed in to the pond or aquarium water. NOT an injection.
     
  17. VeiltailGuy

    VeiltailGuy Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Location:
    cleveland
    Mmm interesting...I was thinking it would be in the feed or injection..good to hear...didn't think injection would be all that feasible for large applications
     
  18. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    koi herpes

    Israel has a product to treat koi herpes virus with out injections. It is amedicine that treats ten gallons of water and then you dip the koi for two or three minutes. For large koi you double the amount. How many you can treat and how long the medicine is active is unknown to me. This is good news for the goldfish hobby also, hopefully we should be close to this cure for goldies.
     
  19. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    herpes update

    I am working with a new group of professionals on GHV. To asses the magnitude of the disease I would ask for your help and PM to me your answers. You do not have to disclose any names or information The questions are:

    1) Have you received or purchased any goldfish that when exposed to your goldfish your existing population started to die off with very little outward signs of disease?

    2) Have you done a massive water change or had a fast temperature drop and have fish loss?

    3)Have you shipped fish or received fish and have them die off with no explanation?

    4) Have you had a pond or tank start to suffer losses with one or two fish dying every week?

    4) Have you water changed fish and the more you add new water the more your fish become lethargic or die?

    5) At what temperature do you notice these problems( 1 thru 4)?

    Thanks in advance. Please respond.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  20. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    two universities

    There are now two groups who have enlisted me to work on GHV. Interesting that there has not been any response on line but yet I have sent two positive samples ( not mine) to the lab this week. We can't put our heads in the sand any more.
     

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