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How to obtain nice tosakin-tail flip

Discussion in 'Goldfish Grooming' started by tosakin_fancier, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    I've seen many tosakins for sale and most of the tosai usually has very little flip or no flip at all in their tails. The Thai people has developed their own line in which the tosakin can have nice tail flips at a very young age...but most of these fish do not grow up to be as beautiful as the japan-raised tosakins. Most of the tosai tosakins of japan also have very little flip and some has very nice flips too but sometimes even the "little flip tosais" tend to win the tosakin shows in japan when they reach the oya stage...and they've transformed beautifully. I'VE been doing some observation and through my own experience keeping this variety i've concluded some ways to obtain nice tail flips:

    1. Keep them in green water, so that we do not have to put any filter or air stones that can increase the water current that can spoil their tails.(the algae particles releases oxygen)(basic)

    2.Keep them in shallow water so that they won't have to balance themselves (floating at abnormal angles, flipping and toppling)and swim hard which can also spoil their tails.(basic)(ideal depth for tosais: an inch higher than the height of water needed to fully immerse their bodies)

    3.Do not mix them with other goldfish varieties that can swim faster than them. (so that they won't have to fight to get food which results in strenuous swimming moves that can ruin the tail)(basic)

    4.Feed them bloodworms to increase colour and its easier for them to obtain food.(If u put them in shallow water you'll see that its easier for them to feed at the bottom of their bowls than at the surface...cause they'll usually miss the food due to their clumsy swimming style).

    5.Separate tosakins with beautiful tails from the ones with the less quality tails to lower the fight for food.(tosakins with nice tails swim clumsier and slower than the ones with less quality tail.)

    6.Catch them using basins or containers not nets that can also ruin their tails if done frequently.

    7. Do not overstock tosakin bowls...give them enough space to swim freely.

    8.If u are desperate enough, i've been told by a tosakin breeder that by putting tosakins in a small bowl it can increase the rate of growth if their tail thus developing the flip..but the body of the fish will not grow or they'll grow very very slowly. I 've done this..it works but u have to set the duration of putting in these containers, maybe 4-6 months so that the fish won't get stunted.

    THESE WAYS ARE THE WAYS THAT I'VE DONE AND SO FAR IT WORKS FOR ME ANd i don't know if it'll work for u guys but please give it a shot.
     
  2. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    test subject

    Here is the one that i use the 'small container method' before and after..

    BEFORE
    [​IMG]

    AFTER
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    although its not that obvious but at least after the method was used its tail form the flips...the flip can't be visible when it swims too fast but at all other times its visible.
     
  3. sanggarra

    sanggarra Fancier

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    St. Louie
    Tosakin_fancier,
    It is EXTREMELY selfless and generous of you to be so open and share your learning and experience in keeping Tosakins. Unfortunately not many like you, one gets vague ambiguous information, unintentional or not.
    Thank you, even though I do not keep Tosakins, this has enriched me.
     
  4. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
    when you say small container, how many gallons are we talking? and to make sure that levels don't go bad, woudln't you have to do daily water changes thus nixing the 'green water'? I have seen them kept in small bowls with a low output airpum and thats all, this sounds very interesting and I just ordered 3 tosakins from Paul so I am reading up on all I can. Thnaks for you help!
     
  5. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    It depends on the size of your fish..mine is 10cm and i use a 2 gallon tank. For the depth of the water u can refer to my first post. And yes you have to do 80-90% wc everyday.But i carry out 100% wc everyday to keep the water quality at a tiptop level. This is why you have to prepare a whole pond or tub full of green water so that u can use them whenever u want. I prepared a 45 gallon tub for my tosakin's water changes. You have three tosakins so i suggest that each of them have their own bowl or tank. Feed them 3-6 times daily (small amount) depending on the water temp.
     
  6. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
    Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, I have the tubs all set up. green water im not so sure on yet, but I'll try my hand on it. I was reading the thread on it...got a little hostile there for a bit, but we'll see if it works! thanks again!
     
  7. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    Well, if u don't want to use green water..u will need a bigger tub/tank maybe for 10-12 cm fish you can use 4-5 gallons tank. You will also need to oxygenate the water heavily before putting it into the tub. Ensure that u feed them heavily (small amount) on bloodworms and peas. They're totally vulnerable to sbd probs if they're fed heavily.
     
  8. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    Here's the basic needs of tosakins:

    1. Keep them in soft water.
    2. The water should be slightly alkaline...7.3-7.6
    3.They tend to develop opercula probs which can be treated by raising the water temp. and a bit salt.
    4. Try not to feed frozen bloodworms, find some live ones. A friend told me that weak tosakins if fed frozen bw can cause them to die.
     
  9. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    new test subject

    This is my new test subject....a butterflyxtosakin, i'm trying to develop the tail flip although it may sound impossible...but we'll see.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  10. sanggarra

    sanggarra Fancier

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    St. Louie
    Interesting. Keep us updated! :)
     
  11. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
    how is this new one going for you? any updates? I am geting a bunch of butterflys in next week, but I am not sure they will have a non-split tail like yours.
     
  12. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    tosakin x butterfly

    Well, its tail is getting more "tosakinny" but no pics yet coz right now it is so hot in my area that the fish is active than ever. The water temp. is always 23-26 celcius which explains why they're active and that's why i can't get any decent, perfect pics. These aren't pure tosakins so their tail is not as strong as normal tosakins. The flip part is only visible when they stood still. I'll try taking a few pics and if i'm lucky maybe i'll post the pictures here. Actually, in almost every spawn of butterflies you'll get a non-split tail like mine, DEBs or Butterfly ryukins. But if you got one maybe u can try my method and see what happens.
     
  13. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    kaga nishiki

    This is a pic of a DEB x tosakin. tHIS Proves that they can develop tosa-like tail.

    [​IMG] They are called kaga-nishiki.
     
  14. sanggarra

    sanggarra Fancier

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Location:
    St. Louie
    Wow... nice!

    Does it swim well? I had a demekin with butterfly tail that flip (non tosakin-like though), it swam poorly and later developed SBD and passed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  15. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    Yes, as it get older it will swim more slowly and getting more lethargic-looking. I don't know why but most DEBs x tosakin does that. Mine died already...due to old age...it was 4 and a half years old.
     
  16. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
    Mine died already...due to old age...it was 4 and a half years old.[/QUOTE]

    that's old?
     
  17. tosakin_fancier

    tosakin_fancier Tosakinist

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Location:
    shah alam. selangor, malaysia
    Well, u see for fragile fancy varieties like tosakins, DEBs etc. that is quite old because these creatures barely move when they're that age. If someone is keeping these varieties and they're older than that please let me know. In many comp. around my country, 3 years is the max. age of participation. Older than that is unacceptable. There are goldfish that can live longer if the conditions are right, like Bruce. But not a tosakin, not a DEB....its quite hard to find these varieties beyond 5 years old.
     
  18. Fancy Goldfish Fancier

    Fancy Goldfish Fancier Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Location:
    Shah Alam, Selangor, W. Malaysia
    Greetings

    I wanna say thank you to Tosakin Fancier for sharing his views/fishes. I too would like to share my newly acquired 3 Chinese Calico Tosakin. Can anyone guess its age? Btw feedbacks/inputs on breeding r welcome.

    Oops how to attach pics? Ok, hopefully u guys can see them now. If no, pls guide the uninitiated pls.

    Btw, Tosakin Fancier, u got mail pls.

    Thank you all.
     

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