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I need help with my Ryukin

Discussion in 'New Members' Area' started by LoriBlonde, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Hi everyone. I just joined this thread to get help with my goldfish. I have 2 Ryukins and one is not doing well. His fins are clamped down.. the past couple of days he’s been hanging out at the top and today he’s down towards the bottom. Here’s my tank set up:
    26 gallons
    Sand substrate
    40 gallon capacity filter
    Artificial plants
    One piece of driftwood.
    Temperature kept at 70 degrees.
    I have well water so the PH is high... I’ve been working for weeks to get it down (hence the driftwood). Yesterday’s water test results:
    High range PH = 8.2
    Ammonia = 0
    Nitrite = 0
    Nitrate = between 10-20 ppm

    I noticed my healthy fish is picking on the sick one so I just set up a “hospital” tank... problem is that it’s only 5.5 gallons. I know this is WAY too small for a goldfish but I feel like getting him away from the other fish and into lower PH is his best chance for right now... am I right about that? Or will putting him into a smaller tank for now make him worse? Also, I bought bottled drinking water to fill the hospital tank so that it has a lower PH but it’s a lot lower (6.8) compared to the 8.2 he’s in now. I think I’ve read goldfish need around 7.4.
    Sorry for the long post but wanted some advice on what you’d recommend. I’m worried I’m too late.
     
  2. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    I live in Miami Florida
    8.2 is not too high of a ph for a goldfish, I doubt that is what is causing your fish's illness. Based on the conditions of your water I would say your fish has flukes/parasites. Also if you do not have a larger tank you can always use those plastic tote boxes
     
  3. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Joe,

    Thank you for your reply! How would I go about treating flukes/parasites? I know nothing about that... is there one medication to treat all?
     
  4. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Also, what is the best temperature for gold fish? I’ve heard all sorts of different things.
     
  5. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    I live in Miami Florida
    goldfish can thrive in a wide range of temps so long as they gradually are achieved. Water temps from the mid 60's to mid 70's are fine. Your tank is 70 so that is fine. Purchase a product called prazi pro (you can order it on line). There other products out there based on copper formulations that work well too. Take a picture of your fish so we can see what is going on. Until you get your medications use rock salt/ice cream salt one teaspoon per gallon of water, replace salt every time you do water change.
     
  6. Ponder

    Ponder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Location:
    Virginia
    Goldfish can thrive in a large range of temperatures and ph levels. There is no specific number that is best. Room temperature is fine and as Joe said, a ph of 8.2 is good. The thing they don't do well with is sudden changes in those measurements. So please don't put your fish directly into much lower ph water than what he is already accustomed to. That could cause him to go into shock.

    Praziquantel, or prazi is one of the best medications that is used for flukes. If your local store doesn't have it, you can order it online. Fish having flukes is like dogs having worms. It's not unusual. If I were you, I would keep the fish in the larger tank and treat both of them. Even though the other fish isn't currently showing signs, he may also have flukes.

    Looks as though Joe and I were posting at the same time. Best of luck with your fish.
     
  7. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Joe and Ponder,

    Thank you so much for your help. I called a good fish store here and they have some Prazi, so I'm going there on my lunch break to pick it up. I left the sick guy in the big tank last night - I'm worried I am too late - he is just laying on the bottom this morning. I agree, I'm sure if he has it, so does the other one, so I'll treat the entire tank. They are the only fish in there. I've read that you have to treat the tank 2 sometimes 3 times, 4 days apart - to get them all. Is this correct? My other question is - some of the stuff that I've read says they only can get flukes from a new fish being introduced. My tank was established over a year ago and I haven't introduced new fish so can it still be flukes?
     
  8. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    I live in Miami Florida
    yes, fish carry a fair amount of parasites/bacteria in them at all times. When they are healthy they keep these pathogens at bay however when their resistance goes down, these pathogens are able to take hold and multiply and make the fish ill. Make sure your water conditions are excellent at all times
     
  9. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Ok. I'll get the medication and start it tonight when I get home from work. I normally test the water once a week but the past couple of weeks I've been doing it every couple of days to try to figure out what was wrong! I'm so mad at myself for not thinking of a forum for help earlier! I had no idea they could get parasites if I hadn't added any new fish. I just kept thinking it was something to do with the water quality. Again, thank you so much for your help - I will let you know how it goes!
     
  10. Ponder

    Ponder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Location:
    Virginia
    The flukes don't necessarily have to come from another fish. From the little bit of understanding I have, gill flukes lay microscopic eggs that drop to the bottom of the tank. Those will hatch and look for a new host fish. Any substrate that might have been in another tank or any plants or decorations you add to your aquarium could have eggs on them.

    The reason for the multiple treatments is that the eggs are difficult to kill. At least they are at the level of medication that your fish can tolerate. The adult or juvenile flukes are easier to eliminate. But those eggs will need to hatch out before they will succumb to the prazi. The time it takes them to hatch varies with the temperature of the water, so at least 2 treatments are recommended.

    I would start with the directions on the package. If you still see problems with your fish, treat them again.
     
  11. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Hey guys... sorry I'm still bugging you. So when I got home on Tuesday night, my sick goldfish had died. :( I took the carbon out of the filter and treated the tank with the Prazi Pro to help the fish that is still OK. The directions say "A single treatment lasting 5 to 7 days is normally sufficient". I know you said at least 2 treatments are recommended.... would you recommend doing the 2nd treatment 5 days from the first? And do you think a 3rd treatment would be best or should I just stick to 2? Last question of a different topic. Is there a humane way to euthanize a fish so I know for the future? I knew the last couple of days it was too late to help, but watching them slowly suffer and die is awful. I definitely don't think flushing a fish down the toilet is humane so I was wondering what else is recommended.
     
  12. Ponder

    Ponder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Location:
    Virginia
    So sorry to hear about your fish.

    I would definitely do a second treatment with the prazi. The time it takes for the eggs to hatch depends on water temperature, and they may not all hatch at the same time. The warmer the water, the quicker they hatch. So in mid summer, it might be okay to dose only once. I like to be sure though, so even then I do at least 2 treatments. Now that it's winter, I would assume your water temperature has cooled a little and that would delay the hatching somewhat

    Prazi is very safe so dosing twice or more shouldn't be a problem.

    I found this information on Koiphen, but it applies to goldfish as well:

    Praziquantel: Gill and Skin Flukes:

    A trematodicide. Praziquantel induces a rapid contraction of schistosomes(a worm or fluke)by a specific effect on the permeability of the cell membrane. The drug further causes vacuolization(causes more and larger spaces or cavities within each individual cell)and disintegration of the cells as well as the Schistosome tegument(the fluke body covering). Bursting or breakdown of the cell walls might be a much simpler way of describing it and may be equally correct.

    Praziquantel must be ingested by the fluke to work. The dosage is one gram per 100 gallons of water. Currently the directions suggest using level tablespoons to measure the product. That is a mistake. In my experience a level tablespoon may hold anywhere from 2.5 to 4.5 grams of product. Not only is this wasteful and inaccurate; it is also very expensive. Please use a gram scale. Calibrate it often.

    Since it does not mix readily with water a standard FMG dosage may be used, or it can be dosed with the FMG as part of the treatment described above. Once it is fully dissolved it does not seem to filter out or precipitate. It simply degrades over time. When using Praziquantel, the water temperature should be in the mid-seventiesF. The first and all succeeding treatments should last seven days each whether treating for gill flukes(Dactylogyrus) or skin flukes(Gyrodactylus). 25% water changes should be made between treatments. Redosing will immediately bring it to the strength needed to kill flukes. I strongly recommend a third or even fourth application of this product due to the life cycle of the flukes as well as the thickness of the slime coat on Koi. In colder waters (60*F to 70*F) a fourth application is usually necessary when treating for gill flukes. Because of the cost of Praziquantel and the reduced treatment time it is well worth the effort to bring the temperature up to optimum. Another way to reduce cost is to simply lower the water in the container or pond to be treated.


    Clove oil is a good and humane way to put a fish to sleep, in my opinion. There is a lot of information online on how to use it for that purpose.

    Again, sorry your fish didn't make it.
     
  13. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Hi Ponder.... Thank you again for all of your help. I'll do the second dose on Tuesday. And I'll remember to come here for help next time I need it! Take care!
     
  14. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    I just was wondering something else this morning... is it ok to not have proper filtration for so long? I took the carbon filter out - the filter is still running but there’s no filter in it. Is it ok like that for 2 or 3 weeks while I’m doing these treatments?
     
  15. Ponder

    Ponder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Location:
    Virginia
    Not having the carbon in the filter is not a problem as long as you have some other filter material in there. That material is where most of your beneficial bacteria lives so it's necessary to keep the water parameters in check. Many people don't use carbon at all.

    Sorry this didn't have a good outcome for your fish. Please don't feel you need to be here just when there is a problem. There is a lot to learn here from everyone, even when things are fine with your tank. I hope you never have to come here again because of a problem.
     
  16. LoriBlonde

    LoriBlonde Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Location:
    Denver
    Ponder,

    Thank you so much! That is good advice... I think I'll spend some time looking around on the site and reading up on some stuff. I've always had tropical fish and have done well with them for years.... these are/were my first goldfish, and I figured I'd do OK with it, but I'm sad I didn't catch this in time. I hope this really is flukes and not something else.... I guess only time will tell. I really want to add another fish since the one died, but I don't know how soon it is OK to add one since I'm treating the water.
     

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