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Need advice about filtration for 142 gallon tank

Discussion in 'Goldfish Gear' started by HenrikB, Dec 24, 2015.

  1. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Hi im about to buy a second hand 540 liter (142 gallon, metric ftw) aquarium and need advice about wich route is the best to go with filtration.

    I been thinking of 2 options:

    Option 1. buy a second hand fluval fx5

    Option 2. Build a sump with a 160 - 220 liter (20 - 29 gallon) tank using mechanical filtration, kaldnes k1 micro fluidized bed and a jecod dct-2000 pump

    Wich option do you guys recomend?

    Maybe someone have a better suggestion?

    Merry christmas everyone.

    Henrik

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  2. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Hi, Henrik. Merry Christmas!

    I would definitely go with Option 2.. It will have more filtering capacity, easy to clean (k1 does not even needs cleaning), and much more versatile. The k1 moving bed is finally getting into the smaller aquarium hobby and I have had excellent luck with it (I am just using the regular knock-off K1). As claimed, just 1 liter of that can handle 5 grams of fish food per day and that is very efficient.

    You do want to use some kind of air pump in the K1 chamber because they are so efficient in converting ammonia/nitrite, they need a lot of dissolved O2. Air is also an efficient way to keep them moving.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  3. Fishheadz

    Fishheadz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Location:
    Moffat, CO.
    I run a FX5/6 on my 140g, though I have considered adding a sump setup in addition.
    Perhaps overkill, do both! or do one, with the option to add in the other at a later time?
    Honestly the FX5/6 is good for a 140g, however,it's not that great for removing fine/extra fine particles, with a sump you just increase filtration, and can remove fine/extra fine particulate matter.
     
  4. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Hehe i use kaldnes micro now in my smaller tanks in a recycleble plastic bottle on top of a sponge filter works great.
    Im just worried about noise lvl since I will have the tank in my 2 room apartment.

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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  5. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

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    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Fishheadz have you tried using a diy skimmer for the fines like in the video that diy guy from Canada have on his channel powerhead recycled waterbottle and filterfloss?
    Also i saw a vid on Youtube with a guy adding some API fine filtermat to the fx5 so it would taje the fines to.

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  6. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Yes, they work very well. I have several similarly designed ones in my tanks. This one is in my 120 gallon and it is the biggest. The total height of the filter is 20". The sponge is 4" x 6" (Tetra pond pre-filter) and the canister is one gallon so I have two liters of K1 in there, all moving nicely with about 3 Lpm of air.
    sponge-K1.jpg
     
  7. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    If you replace some of the media in a canister filter with finer material such as finer foam/sponge, then they should do a good job on fines. However, tat may slow down the water flow rate. A separate sponge filter can help as well with the addition benefit of more aeration if it is air driven.

    The problem with canister is that if you do not clean them frequently (they are harder to clean), then the nitrate level can remain high because all the "stuffs" are still in the water column. That is why some people call canister filters "nitrate factory". :)

    In the case of a sump filter, if the first mechanical media is filter floss or somesuch, then it is extremely easy to clean, i.e. toss it and replace because they are so so inexpensive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  8. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

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    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Yeah i know but the fx5 have that hose connector at the bottom that you can use to remove water thru gravity from the tank and filter if you use that during water changes your supposed to flush most of the solids from the filter i think.
    Fishheadz you have a fx5 does that work?

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  9. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    These Fluvals are easier to clean than some other canister filters but still hard to clean. The drain/siphon (purge valve) you mentioned is mainly to remove water inside it so it is easier to carry to clean it. Yes, that water does contain some "stuffs" but that is actually the filtered (clean) water. Also some of the heavy solids settled on the bottom outside the media/baskets will be partially removed. Most of the hard to clean stuffs is still in the media. It is not a real back-flushing process.

    There are older canister filters (like Ocean Clear filters) using the similar drain valves (a more appropriate name) before Fluval.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  10. Fishheadz

    Fishheadz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Location:
    Moffat, CO.
    I don't use the gravity fed purge valve on my FX5. Personally, I use a 1/2 HP sump pump & 3/4" commercial grade garden hose for water removal (drains 90% of my 140g in about 15 min), & an Aqueon Water Changer to add water(fills in about 30-45 min). (I am strongly considering running plumbing directly to the set up.) However, if you get a 3rd Aquastop valve, (and section of hose to match) for the FX5/6, you can unplug the unit, remove the return valve from the unit, install 3rd Aquastop valve with hose, plug unit back in. it will drain to the bottom of the pick up tube. This may be useful for up to 75%+ water change,(depending on how low in the aquarium the pick up tube is/can be placed)

    The problem it seems with adding fine filter mats (and Fluval makes them for the FX5/6), is that they tend to cause the filters to trap too much air, which is already a bit of an issue with the FX5, (but was improved on the FX6). On the FX5, it turns itself off for a couple minutes every 24 hrs, to allow trapped air to escape, the FX6 does this every 12 hours to help eliminate the trapped air. When I use fine filter mats in my FX5/6 (an FX5 with an FX6 motor; it still acts as an FX5, only shutting off every 24 hrs), I notice an increase in trapped air, and have to manually purge air by unplugging the unit. It does not occur when I do not have the (white) fine mats installed. I only use the exterior coarse mats, and blue medium particle mats in the inner media trays. (plastic) Bio-Balls & (ceramic)Bio Rings fill the media trays.

    I'm a pretty strong guy, and have no problems lugging the filled FX5 the 25' to my back door. If you're not pretty strong, you should use the gravity drain to purge what fluid is in the container before removing it to clean, however, keep in mind, that it has to be full to re-start it.

    *As a side note, anytime you disconnect the intake hose from an FX5/6 Be sure the Aquastop valve is in the off position, wrap a bath towel around connection, before removing valve & hose, as a bit of water will come out when the female side of the connector is removed from the male side of the connector.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2015
  11. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

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    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    Fishheadz how often do you need to clean it?

    I live on the 6th floor but the tank wiil be 5 meters from my bathrom so i think purge valve vill work for me.. lugging out side into the elevator and around the corner dont sound like the best idea ;). hmm i have glased in balcony with heating.. maybe i should keep the tank there...... what temepreature can the fish survive? im in sweden .. we dont have polarbears here but it get damn cold in the winter (just mentioning it becuase a guy i met in nyc thought we had polarbears walking the streets here).
     
  12. Fishheadz

    Fishheadz Well-Known Member

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    Jul 31, 2014
    Location:
    Moffat, CO.
    I would keep it indoors. Being on a balcony you risk 2 factors. 1: the balcony not being able to support the weight of the set up*. 2: excessive light, you will likely have constant algae issues.
    *Water= 8.33lbs per Gallon x 140 G= 1166 lbs + the weight of the aquarium itself (mines easily 300 lbs)+ stand (mines easily 225 lbs) + substrate 25lbs = 2,266 lbs, this is about what a compact car weighs, in about the footprint as the trunk of said compact car.

    I only take it out my backdoor, when I clean it (usually every 2 weeks). The only reason I do it there, is because it is more convenient than taking it up 3 stairs to the bathroom. I always have that option available, and may use it if the weather is bad.
    If it's a week that I'm not cleaning the filter, I use the (clothes) washing machine drain, to get rid of my waste fish water.

    I like the sump pump to drain, because A:gravity takes FOREVER! B; The pump gives me good water pressure (almost like regular garden hose pressure) for rinsing my filters out.
     
  13. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

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    Dec 21, 2015
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    I think the balcony can take it. its 2 meter deep and 6 meters wide 12m2 adn its a extension of the floor in the appartment same concrete elements that are 1 meter wide and 6 meter long and 0.3 meter thick. They renovated the concrete 6 months ago..... but alge would be aporblem myabe i try a tub out there this spring summer. and i have a pump here somewhere 2000iters a hour (375 g/h?) thta should do the trick.
     
  14. Gold Digger

    Gold Digger Active Member

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    Sep 19, 2014
    Location:
    United States
    These are my filters of choice extremely high bio load, water circulation and can be build almost any size. Crazy affordable!!
    I never liked any of my old canister filters. To much inconvenient servicing.

     
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  15. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

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    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    That was my main issue with canister filters when having multiple tanks/tubs. They also use more energy than air pumps, power heads, and HOBs. Some of them use 30 - 50 Watts. A large air pump using that much power can run dozen large tanks. I also have three canister filters sitting somewhere in boxes.

    I have one overhead sump wet/dry filter (in an over stocked tank) using a bigger container than the window flower box shown in the video. I prefer overhead trickle to under tank ones if it is not a display tank. No tank drilling or overflow box needed and it is more energy efficient because the pump only needs to raise the water a little, compared to the typical under the tank, in the cabinet setups.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  16. Gold Digger

    Gold Digger Active Member

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    Sep 19, 2014
    Location:
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    Haha i did not even know the extremity. Are there any good mechanical filter designs that are only powered by air you know of? My tank has both sumps they do freaking WORK combined with skimming! :D
     
  17. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Effective air-driven mechanical filtration for our goldfish is a challenge in a display tank because most of the filters are in the tank so they are unsightly. Otherwise, large box type of filter can be used. With high volume of air injection, the filter can move a lot of water and attract debris.

    The best mechanical filter is actually us humans. :) Frequent siphoning of poops and debris is the best. Otherwise, no matter how good the filters are, the poops are still in the water system. The next best would be the sump filters because it is the easiest to clean/remove these debris.

    What I do is to use a DIY high flow sponge filter with several different porosity of sponges. I have been using the coarser Hydro Pro V on the bottom and the finer regular V or the XY-380 on the top with the Czech air injection system as shown in the flowing picture. Lately, I found a better mechanical filter sponge. It is for pond use and in my other picture of the hybrid sponge-K1 moving media filter in Post 6 of this thread. I am converting to that in all my sponge filters now as the bottom sponge. The sponge is extremely coarse (attract large debris and does not clog easily) but rigid (not easy to collapse), about 4" x 6" in size with a 1" hole in the middle, and should be long lasting because it is for pond use. (Tetra uses these for their larger pond pumps). Amazon has it for about $4. (There is a smaller version that is perfect for HOB or canister intake tube).
    All-together.jpg
    For tubs, etc, I have mentioned 3-gallon bucket filters with lots of air and larger diameter airlift tube (1.5"). Here is a picture right after partial cleaning and replacing an old bucket. It is very easy to clean and attracts lots of dirt.
    everything.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  18. Lou

    Lou Well-Known Member

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    Dec 18, 2015
    Location:
    Western Michigan
  19. HenrikB

    HenrikB Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Location:
    Gothenburg Sweden
    whats the messure ments on that sponge?

    nvm 4" x 6" saw it above.....
     

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