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Proper Fish Quarantine Procedures

Discussion in 'Goldfish Conversation' started by GoldfishAdmin, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Ranchumaniax

    Ranchumaniax Guest

    Gary,

    Im sorry to hear that you lost all Tosai you bought from me early this year. After analyze your case base on all I heard and my knowledge, I believe your problem should coming either from me or your other fish. For the record, We both have many fish in stock and they are all coming from different places. And as you already know, all fish carry some bacteria or parasite. There is no 100% clean goldfish in the world. No matter what you do, once they start eating or pooping. The bacterias or parasite are starting to grow. Some parasite/bacteria are better of growing when the temperature are high, some better in colder water.

    For your case, I think that the disease might already been at your place, but does not disturbing your fish. If my assumption is right, It will sound reasonable of those other people who have the same problem as you do. Since those people have both fish from me and from you.

    As you know, different fish has different level of immunization. I suggest that you might want to send some of your own fish to lab for check out. I also will send some of my fish to the lab for checking.

    Base on my understand of goldfish that I learned from Mr. Boss. Most of the case, a healthy cheapo goldfish last longer than a healthy high quality goldfish. This also include different type of goldfish, TVR Vs Azumanishiki or TVR Vs Comet. Such fish as TVR are extremely delicate to water quality and bacteria/parasite. Early this year, when I bred my TVR and Azumanishiki. I did lost around 50 BBR by Ich, while Azumanishiki(1 day younger) also have Ich, but I did not lose any! Azuma eating very well even they have so much white spot while TVR are all laying on the bottom, which I have to starve them and did more water change.

    I, myself, not an expert on medicate my fish. This is a reason why I have to be very careful with source of fish. Boss has been qualified as Good Agricultural Practice(GAP) by Thailand Fisheries Department. Not many farm(All types; Shrimp, Aquarium pets, chicken, other animal) have been qualified. He also has been awarded third place of Best Thailand agricultural 2009. So, I believe, his place are in better shape and much organize than mine and many of us including all GOLDFISH IMPORTERS. So these problem shouldn't come from Boss Ranchu. Especially, his fish have been exporting worldwide where he doesn't have any feedback on this problem somewhere else except US.

    Per my part, I do manage zoning of my fish. All fish Equipment have to be use separate and bleach at least once every other week. But sometime I did cross-contamination by using the same bowl/net for two different fish in the same zone, which sometime cause me some trouble, sometime doesn't. So no need to talk about fish in different zones. My zoning base on hardiest fish to delicate fish. New arrival fish to older fish. Healthy fish to sick fish. In breeding season, I have to make more room for Breeding zone. All these, I learned from Mr. Boss, since I called him almost every night.

    As for Goldfish commercial world, Chinese goldfish are the most scariest fish comparing goldfish from Thailand or Japan. Many farm have been shut down by Chinese government such as Tung Hoi by KHV virus. So I would never ever put my Thai or Japanese fish with Chinese fish. Every time I got Chinese fish in. They will be far far away from my Thai or Japanese fish while in QT. Everybody know Chinese do more on quantity than quality. This is another reason where you can see some weird color that happen from in-breed, cross-breed or whatsoever. You also will see many bad quality fish at Jumbo size. Also, Chinese goldfish farm feed tubifex worms which are high bacteria content. And think about it, they can grow their fish to Jumbo. This telling me that their immune system are very strong.

    Anyway, I hope this post will not burn our friendship. And I hope we will work together to find out the beginning of this problem and solve it. I am in this goldfish hobby for only 3-4 years while you been in the hobby for 10+ years. So I am here to learn from you. If we can find the cause, then we can solve and protect this to happen again in the future.

    Warm Regard,
    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2010
  2. Ranchumaniax

    Ranchumaniax Guest

    No matter how good/bad your skill on keeping goldfish. These fish will be quite hardy. However, once you go for some other fish coming from Japan or Thailand. These Chinese goldfish will live while you will lost Japanese or Thai Goldfish. You can try this!
     
  3. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Paul's Comment

    Noce try Paul. But in reality you don't quaranteen long enough and many people have lost valuable Ranchu and Jikin from you. Uou must move to a tighter procedure to ensure your customers don't have these issues.
    Rememebr, I have been keeping fish longer that you have been on this Earth and I'm a professional biologist by training. If you treated your fish like Ken Fisher we wouldn't be having these conversations.
     
  4. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    disease

    Imports to this country should have paperwork declaring the fish free from certain viruses. If we can accept this then we are believing in certain importers for clean fish. When these fish are bought there still are a number of viruses, bacteria and parasites not tested for. I recommend keeping culls or purposely bred clean fish that you would put in with the imports. You would send these culls for testing to a lab or pathologist.
    There are college universities and state extension offices that do this work, a lot of this is free. A lot of diseases have the same symptoms and sometimes it is confusing to properly identify In the past I have fallen victim to fish tb and goldfish herpes virus, a number of parasites and bacterial problems from over seas. The pathologist I work with has said he would test fish from an importer if I was buying from the importer. Maybe the importers would like to co- operate and do this voluntarily. I have recently made these arrangements for a national fish farm and it has helped keep thousands of fish alive, only in that the receiving distributor knew what the fish had and the proper medication to treat them. Just a suggestion. I know there are ways to cheat this but some importers could probably cut losses and sell more fish. A recent conversation with the dept of Ag and the agent said he would like to see foot baths at importers and distributors so the customers don't bring viruses and such to already clean fish.
     
  5. Ranchumaniax

    Ranchumaniax Guest

    Gary

    Did you QT your fish the same way as Ken? If you did, then you should not have any problem with fish you bought from me, right? To me, I think no matter where you buy the fish from. You must QT your new fish.

    I can keep QT my fish for 2-3 month, but Im pretty sure we will have to same problem. Since the problem is not starting here.

    Think about it;

    Shipping from Thailand to Ranchumaniax = 43-45 hours.
    Shipping from Ranchumaniax to customer overnight = 24-28 hours.
    Shipping from Ranchumaniax to customer FedEx ground/Priority (2-3 days) = 48-72 hours.

    Assuming that fish from Thailand have been cleaned, receive by ranchumaniax. Ranchumaniax cleaned them and ship to customer. Customer do not Clean or QT the fish or QT not long enough. What going to happen?

    Paul
     
  6. Ranchumaniax

    Ranchumaniax Guest

    Some Example;

    Suphi only have TVR that imported by Ranchumaniax.com. He sometimes have problem on his fish, but he always there to save them. He mentioned no dead fish in the past 2 year. Did he got lucky or he know what he is doing?

    Fred do have bought some TVR imported by Ranchumaniax.com the first day of arrival. He also receive fish from other place. Fish from other place died and been giving away. TVR imported by Ranchumaniax.com are now suffering and dying. What is the cause? All this happen 6 month after the purchase. Fish should be very healthy for the pass 6 month, growing from 1" to now maybe 15cm.

    A customer live close by to Ranchumaniax.com. Always buy some Jumbo HIgh quality(7-9" fish) and picking them up himself. It have been 2 years now and he has bought at least 20 fish. No dead fish, except 1 free fish. He always came in a day after arrival or a week later, where the fish are not in QT process yet. Did he got lucky?


    If we believe that Ranchumaniax.com doesn't treat or QT fish long enough. I believe all the fish that were imported by Ranchumaniax.com will all be dead. And probably Ranchumaniax.com will be out of business by now. There are not many hardcore goldfish hobbyist around who will to spend this kind of price $250-$1,500. Ranchumaniax.com do more transaction with returning customer and hope to provide better fish at the best price. We must understand that sometime fish are struggle with shipping. I once read a post by Steve at Raingarden explaining how the Pure Oxygen react with ammonia produce by fish when they are in the bag per transporting/shippin.

    Paul
     
  7. suphi

    suphi Ranchuist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Location:
    CT
    In retrospect, I only QT my fish for a week. But they got treated for every imaginable thing except for virus during that period. I actually don't want Paul to QT my fish because I'd rather do it myself (no offense, Paul). Not that I'm advocating my way or anything, but just FYI...

    Fish get sick/sicker during this time of the year since aeromonas/pseudomonas species (which are ubiquitous) tend to have an outbreak when temp starts to drop, kinda like flu season. Everyone should be careful and pay closer attention to their water quality. Don't leave sharp objects in tank if your water isn't clean because any nick in fish skin may lead to infection plus outbreak in tank. Then comes spring we will get to celebrate a virus season for fish, lol.
     
  8. Ranchumaniax

    Ranchumaniax Guest

    Yes, P' Suphi,

    I do not blame you not trusting me treating your fish. It always best to do them yourself. At least, you are very certain on what have been done to your fish. I could BS so many thing on QT the fish, but who'll know exactly what I really did to the fish.

    Anyway, My point is to notice all goldfish hobbyist to QT your own fish no matter where you getting them from. Once your fish have been shipped, a full treatment for QT should be taken. And it is always better to QT couple fish than the whole imported shipment anyway!

    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2010
  9. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
    [Anyway, My point is to notice all goldfish hobbyist to QT your own fish no matter where you getting them from. Once your fish have been shipped, a full treatment for QT should be taken.
    Paul[/QUOTE]

    I agree...QT no matter what, if you got them from a breeder, an importer or the Local Pet store, it's the only way to observe the fish and also improve the health and adjustment period to the new water, surroundings. I never used to until I learned the hard way with a fish htat I loved years ago. I swear by it now! BTW the chochokin I got from you paul is doing great!!!:yess:
     
  10. bekko

    bekko artisanal breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Location:
    Hakipu'u Hawai'i
    I know the post you are referring to, but you do not understand the chemical reactions I was referring to.

    I have a lot to loose and quarantine imported fish for life. But, most people are not able to do that.

    The stress of shipping and being moved can wreck a fish's immune system. It takes at least eight weeks of stable surroundings, warm temperature, pristine water, good nutrition and no disease for the immune system to reach full strength again. Stressing the fish again before it has fully recovered is asking for trouble. If you are going to mix fish from different sources, then at least wait until the fish has fully recovered from the shipping.

    Your strongest fish will always be the ones you bred yourself.

    -steve
     
  11. Ranchufan16

    Ranchufan16 Ryukin & Veil Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Location:
    northwestern Ohio
     
  12. suphi

    suphi Ranchuist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Location:
    CT
     
  13. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Quaranteening of Imports

    I generally quaranteen all imported fish from anybody for six months. While Sulphi has successfully treated some of his fish, the number of fish he keeps is tiny.

    The Jikin , BBR , and large Tosai were all isolated for their entire life. All of the large Tosai were lost even by Paul this summer, the BBR were lost by Dan and I as they came into maturity, the pathologist suugests that the stress of becoming sexually active brought out the A.hydrophla, Greg H. also had great Ranchu losses recently.

    These really cool fish from Thailand need to be isolated, and fed an antibiotic feed for a period of at least two weeks as soon as they arrive and while they are being acclimated to US water they are need to be defluked and three to five days in oxilinic acid wouldn't hurt. Paul, obviously doesn't like this discussion, but if he is going to continue to act like a trans-shipper we collectively must come up with our own formulation for quaranteening the stock.

    I have been keeping fish since 1964, and breeding goldfish since 1980, when I get a disease that I can't fix and decide to freeze all the stock at a loss of several thousand dollars, you other people on this page should listen up! I love this japanese stock but temeprate water fish coming from the tropics neeeds special care. Historically I have bought Ranchu from Carney which were from Thailand, I never had this issueand I did this for years, I should also note that the BBR from Paul (Itoh) in 2009 are now Nisai and doing well. My feeling is that the 2010 fish all had Aeromonas that is antibiotic resistant and is tough to get rid of, I had a similiar situation with Jo Ann in 1996 with A. salmoides. Lets hope 2011 brings cleaner fish.

    Let me be clear, Paul's intentions are great, the fish are cool, the 2010 batches are really troublesome and need to be watched.
    One last note; there are several species of Aeromonas, hydrophyla is generally and internal disease in which the fish float right side up, stop eating and die rapidly, salmoides(sp) typically has open sore ansd red mouths and holes in the flesh.
     
    Starlight28 likes this.
  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Location:
    ny state
    new disease

    my gut tells me that we are not dealing with a bacteria problem.
    that is secondary.i think we are dealing with an internal protozen.this evil import is causing multiple problems.lets solve it and the hell with the imports
     
  15. suphi

    suphi Ranchuist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Location:
    CT
    John, what kind of Protozoa do you think it might be and how should one treat it?
     
  16. Virginia ranchu

    Virginia ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
  17. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    protozoans

    A fish farmer I know very well suggest Chilodinella or salt resistant Costia.
     
  18. TheTruth

    TheTruth Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Location:
    ny state
    suphi im not versed in types of protozen.i took sports in college,never studied
    my bad
     
  19. TheTruth

    TheTruth Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Location:
    ny state
    disease

    gary what would be the treatment,is this a protozen?i dont think oxy works
     
  20. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Protozoans

    Costia is Formaldehyde and Malachite green for a week

    Chilodinella is tougher, it is only on live fish so many folks can never figure it out, Potassium Permangenate dip carefully with salt and salt in the tank. It takes weeks to get rid of it. look at the Johnson / Hess book, greta description
     

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