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Septicemia?

Discussion in 'All Questions from Newbies' started by Nali, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    My comet Pico has been having these issues on and off for a month now. He will be fine at dinner, and then at bed time he has red streaks on his fins and red patches on his body. I started treating it at first with melafix and frequent pwc but it kept getting worse(more, larger patches and localized swelling). I used API fin and body cure assuming it was septicemia and that seemed to work. It came back a week later and I did a water change and then dosed the tank with the last dose of fin and body cure I had and it worked but once again, about a week later, Pico is once again in a bad way. He has been active and alert and has not had any appetite issues, even when he was worse than this. Red marks seem to consistently be on the same side.

    I have been watching the water specs ever since this started and they have been fine for weeks. Water quality seemed to be fine when the problem first started too.

    I am in Canada so several API medications are unavailable

    PWC: 25% weekly
    Aquarium has been going for 1.5 years
    Tank: 20 Gal
    Tankmates? No
    PH: 7
    Nitrates:0
    Nitrites:0
    Ammonia: 0
    Temp: 18C
    Plants: several Java ferns - I added 3 very tall ferns right before this started, but the other shorter ones have been there since I started the aquarium.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to help him?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    I live in Miami Florida
    I would do at least 80-90% water changes weekly to start, vacuum your gravel and do not add any more fish as your twenty is at full capacity. It is not unusual for all white fish to show some red veins in their fins. The change in color may also be what you are feeding your fish. If your food contains any color additives to bring out reds in a fish then that will contribute to a discoloration in your fish. From the picture he looks well. Just increase those water changes and, vacuum your gravel. So long as the fish is active, eating, and your water conditions are good, I would not say this is septicemia
     
  3. shakaho

    shakaho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Please answer the rest of the questions. The easiest way is to reply to this post and type your answer after each question.

    What is Ammonia Level? 0
    What is Nitrite Level? 0
    What is Nitrate level? 0
    What is Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH)? 7
    What is Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH)? Please measure.
    What is the brand of test-kit used(strips or drops)? Please answer this question. 0 nitrate is highly unlikely with your water change schedule so i wonder about the accuracy of this test.
    What is your water temperature? 18C
    What is the size of the tank (how many gals.) and how long has it been set up? 20 gallons 1.5 years.
    What is the name and size of the filter(s)
    ?
    Is there any substrate in the tank? If so how deep? and what kind (sand, gravel)?
    How often do you change the water and how much? 25% weekly
    How many fish in the tank and their size?
    Do you use water conditioner(if so, what kind)?
    What do you feed your fish and how often?

    Is there any new fish/plant added to the tank? if so how long is the quarantine period? I added 3 very tall ferns right before this started
    Is there any medications added to the tank? melafix, API fin and body cure
    Describe the problems you are seeing: example grains of salt on body, blody streaks, frayed fins, fungus, staying at bottom, not eating, etc? at bed time he has red streaks on his fins and red patches on his body
     
  4. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Hello neighbour, I agree with Joe increase your water changes and white fish do often show red veins. The fact that he is active & alert and eating well is very positive. You do not mention your substrate and how he rests. What is on your tank bottom ,and did you QT the new java fern plants, is it possible that something was brought in with the new plants ?

    I would take them out , place in a bucket with air stone and treat the whole tank with aquarium salt as my first action. I have treated a goldfish for septicemia and yes the medicine for this is available in Ottawa however if this is something else it could be very dangerous for your guy. I made a mistake in treating again for this and really do not want to think about the consequences for a favourite fish. Eventually I had an outbreak of ICH and this was not the treatment I should have used.

    Unfortunately I was not able to find a vet that deals with fish problems in our area. Private message me if you need more info on how to get other medicines and what is available in Ottawa or other retailers online.

    Good luck with Pico.
     
  5. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I tried salt the first time around and it didn't seem to help but I will try it again. It may be that I didn't add enough. I (foolishly) didn't quarantine the new javas, so it is entirely possible it did start with them.

    I don't think I have ever seen him rest on the bottom (he tends to sleep 2/3 of the way up in the water column racing my window. There is 2" of gravel at the bottom. I was mildly concerned about the red on the fins, but it was the angry red patches and the swelling that started lifting the scales in some spots that has me worried.
     
  6. orangecrush

    orangecrush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Location:
    Loma Linda, CA 92354
    Calico3, you should post that info here or does everyone in Canada have to PM you to get this information?

    Jim.
     
  7. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Sorry , Jim much easier to give specific details , driving instructions if needed etc. PM, lots of the info has been given on the forum several times & Nali is new. In fact maybe she has used my treatment before as it can be used for fin & tail rot too. She is very right in that we have limited access to the medications that you USA residents have easier access to. Where I got my treatment " Big Al's " as well does not bring in as many medications as in the past. Some of the API treatments are no longer available.

    I do wish her all the best and hope that her comet recovers quickly.
     
  8. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    What is Ammonia Level? 0
    What is Nitrite Level? 0.5
    What is Nitrate level? 40 ish, the new strips are tough to read since the colour seems to be more brownish than the pink on the label
    What is Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH)? 7 KH:>40, probably around 10-15 GH: <30, probably around 20?
    What is Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH)? 7.2ish, more basic than the aquarium. KH and GH are about the same as the water in the tank. Pretty low for both.
    What is the brand of test-kit used(strips or drops)? Please answer this question. 0 nitrate is highly unlikely with your water change schedule so i wonder about the accuracy of this test. Used the API 5 in 1 strips. I thought about what you said and got a different brand today and tested them against the API ones I have. The Marineland ones clearly showed presence of nitrates and nitrites while they were both 0 on the API ones. I don't think this is the only bad batch of API strips I have had either now that I think about it.
    What is your water temperature? 18C
    What is the size of the tank (how many gals.) and how long has it been set up? 20 gallons 1.5 years.
    What is the name and size of the filter(s)
    ? Topfin 20
    Is there any substrate in the tank? If so how deep? and what kind (sand, gravel)? Gravel, 1.5"
    How often do you change the water and how much? 25% weekly
    How many fish in the tank and their size?
    Only him. Excluding his tail, about 3 inches
    Do you use water conditioner(if so, what kind)? Prime
    What do you feed your fish and how often? Sinking pellets, two or three at a time so he gets them all. Twice a day, often with peas at dinner
    Is there any new fish/plant added to the tank? if so how long is the quarantine period? I added 3 very tall ferns right before this started No QT, I was silly and am regretting it
    Is there any medications added to the tank? melafix, API fin and body cure Most of this has been diluted away with water changes
    Describe the problems you are seeing: example grains of salt on body, bloody streaks, frayed fins, fungus, staying at bottom, not eating, etc? Red patches with a few lifted scales over them, red streaks on fins

    After seeing the nitrites on the new test strips, I did a 50% water change. I will check it again in the morning and probably do another.
     
  9. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Yes you need to do larger water changes, long term you are best to get the API freshwater drop test kit as unfortunately strip test kits are not known to be as accurate. Continue using the Prime which you can double dose. If the 40 reading of nitrates is correct the only way to bring them down is with water changes. I would cut down your feeding schedule until your readings are better. It is strange that your ammonia is zero yet showing nitrites , perhaps another member can comment.

    The use of aquarium salt also helps with nitrite.
     
  10. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Thanks, I will definitely invest in the drop kit. I wouldn't be surprised if the ammonia strips are garbage too. I just bought both of them though so you can imagine my displeasure at seeing the other brand read way differently.

    I did another water change this morning and added extra prime to the tank. I will continue to do water changes as suggested.

    I took a look at him this morning and he seems to be stable, if not improving slightly
     
  11. shakaho

    shakaho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    Since you have some nitrite in the tank water, add salt to the tank water at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. This will not lower the concentration of nitrite in the water, but it decreases the nitrite taken up by the fish, preventing nitrite poisoning.
     
  12. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I did several water changes and added the salt. He improved greatly, and for a few days he looked symptom free. Yesterday morning I noticed the spot on his tail fin was a bit swollen (like little nodule on one side of the membrane) and then last night at bedtime I noticed it was an angry red and that he was starting to get another spot by his anal fin. I did a 40% water change this morning and replaced the salt. In the hour it took for me to get ready, his red patches had worsened and almost all of his fins show that red streaking like his pectoral in the pictures. His normally perky dorsal was folded down (but not tightly clamped) and or twitchy. He seemed really irritated too. I thought maybe I missed the prime last night when I did the water but I dont think I did. Added extra ti the tank just in case.

    Ammonia: still reading 0 (garbage strips?)
    Nitrate: 0 (on the new strips that were reading it before)
    Nitrate: 20
    Ph: 7.4ish - definitely got more basic ofer the last few days, could this be part of it?
    Kh: 25ish
     
  13. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    hello Nali : I was wondering how your fellow was doing just to let you know I have recently measured my tap water and it is showing .50 ppm. Have been in touch with city officials and Seachem laboratories. I had a mystery illness in my tanks and started again last fall with 3 tanks and fish less cycling. ( new everything ) All the 3 tanks and fish are still showing ammonia and after large water changes conditions got worse.
    1.Please continue to double dose with your prime as bad water conditions make our fish much more likely to get sick. I will let you know when I get answers back to my inquiries.
    2. Contact Big Al's 613-244-3474 . They out of all Ottawa LFS have the best selection of medicine for Septicemia that can be picked up. I have used Kanaplex which is one of Seachems's products that is still available to us locally. I would not follow any recommendations from any other stores that carry anything other then aquarium products. Sometimes Al's can order in for you . They do tell me Health Canada will not allow them to bring in as much as previously available. Unfortunately some products USA residents can get cannot be gotten easily here.

    ( Maybe other Canadian's can comment on this. - I will start another thread when I have more time, very busy )

    My Ph is usually 7.8 need to recheck again. Perhaps others can comment and give more recommendations. Many thanks to all, and hopefully Nali will have improvement soon.
     
  14. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Thanks Calico, it seemed very strange to me that he got way better and then suddenly way worse. I am thinking about maybe going out an getting some distilled water and using that in case it is our tap water. I would be very interested in hearing anything you find out. Pico is 3.5 years old and I have never had this much trouble with him until now. It started in the summer when my water temperature went way up. All 3 of my aquariums had problems and I lost a few fish from my tropical tank which had been really stable. Both Pico and my other goldfish had a lot of problems then too.

    Will continue to double dose with prime at water changes
     
  15. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Nali : Also make sure that you have lots of water aireation ( spelling ? ). I have put extra air stones in all my tanks. Last summers drought conditions made keeping my tanks cool also difficult. ( drapes closed all day and very little tank lighting used ) The City of Ottawa got back to me and they will be making an appointment to have my water tested, . I will get back to you.

    Don't think I would use distilled water. Keep using the prime and I will be doing lots of water testing on my tanks until I get answers.
     
  16. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Alright, I will see if I can find my old air stone and add that in too. I am hoping I can go out tonight and get a store to check my water/pick up the drop test kit.
     
  17. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Good, be careful if going. Freezing rain warning this evening & early tomorrow. City of Ottawa will check my water tomorrow if driving conditions are good.
     
  18. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    Nali , members and particularly those of us that live in the Ottawa area and have city water. I have some recent goldfish shipped to me and they are at the top of the tank gasping a lot. I have been doing large more frequent water changes. My API drop test kit was showing my ammonia on the 75 gal tank at .50 and out of the tank and .50 ppm from the tap. I was very concerned and I had the City come and test my water today. Tank water .22 ammonia , tap water Chloramine reading 1.70 standard for our city and ph 9.1 standard. Because I have been doing frequent large water changes the ph has not had time to reduce over time. I need to reduce my water changes perhaps a small amount daily. to let my water conditions stabilize.
    Lesson learned := even API freshwater drop test kit not accurate . The city will also send my water to a lab to get me a more accurate reading then their hand kit.
    := sometimes large frequent water changes not great depending on your home water standards.
    := today I will need to bring my PH down / investigating perhaps add a bit of RO water and add a buffer ( need to research this more, advise from aquarium warehouse.)
    So Nali finding about our city water may help somewhat. I do hope so and that Pico is feeling better soon.
     
  19. Nali

    Nali Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Pico seems to be improving mostly (sores on body are gone, tail looks better though the cyst-like bulges haven't completely gone away yet). I did a 25% water change yesterday and broke out the new drop test kit today to check the water. Ammonia is back at 0, but the PH was 6.5. Seeing how that was way different from what the strips said a few days ago, I decided to test the tap water too and found it was 5.5 - a far cry from the 8.4-8.8 the city website says.

    He seems to have split his tail last night in 2 places. Not sure if it is a water quality issue since the water looks better today than it has recently, or if he just caught it on something. He is very exuberant today and seems less twitchy and irritated so, fingers crossed, I hope he continues this way.
     
  20. calico3

    calico3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Location:
    Orleans, On Canada
    I am very glad that Pico is showing improvement. Good work.
     

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