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the art of changing water

Discussion in 'Goldfish Conversation' started by bluebelly, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Cincy Ranchu

    Cincy Ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Wonder?

    Sounds cool, I wonder if sugar free Gatoraid would work?:youtellme:
     
    DCSteve likes this.
  2. Virginia ranchu

    Virginia ranchu Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
    ....or maybe even regular Gatorade, since the formula calls for Dextrose. I also think that Walgreens and CVS sell lactated Ringers Solution.
     
  3. skidad_2007

    skidad_2007 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Right or Wrong?

    Hi all my comments for consideration.

    When it comes to fish keeping/breeding, there is a major aspect to adhere to - the management of the N2 cycle.
    All of us, whether novice, experienced, or professional breeder adhere to the functions of water management.
    We keep water - get that right and the fish will be fine.

    How we individually achieve it is where the opinions vary - to filter or not to filter.

    Some breeders use massive water changes to control everything, but also these large water changes are vital for the maintenance and grooming of some of the fancy varieties.

    My preference is for filtration, and I use substantial mechanical and biological filtration in most of my systems.
    My filters are mainly home made,and heavily aerated for production of aerobic bacteria.

    It takes biological filters way longer to establish than I've read on here - the bio film will establish on all of the surfaces within a filter, and also on surfaces within the tank/pond - by maturing fully your filters, you allow the filters to reach full efficiency,and control of N2 cycle.

    Water changes still play an important part, even with filters in operation, but by observing your fish and systems, and testing of water parameters its possible to cut down on the amount of water being changed.

    In short, it all depends on what your requirements are for your part of the hobby, by adapting the general rules of water management, we should all be able to keep our fish healthy - but even in the best kept systems imbalances occur and we get problems.
    Good luck to all and happy fish keeping.
     
  4. afnaveils

    afnaveils Goldfish breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Location:
    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    I may be off the subject a little bit, but when hand-spawning, I don't swirl but rather move sideways. Swirling makes the eggs move to the centre by centripetal force and we then get more eggs clumping in the middle of the container.
     
  5. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    refreshing thread

    can i just say how refreshing this thread is!

    i have a friend who is in the aquarium business who thinks i am doing everything wrong when i tell him i do 75% changes weekly. or that i only have a sponge filter and that a canister filter is not on my priority list, like at all. in fact, i think he was about ready to say this is why my fish are dying when in reality they look beautiful! I bought them last late winter/early spring, all around an inch i think, and they are now between 3.5-4 inches, very active and so pretty! (thank you gary!)

    he wants me to get a canister, do less changes, use RO water, and some other stuff that just makes me batty. why complicate a simple routine and what is working?! am i not correct that a mechanical filter will remove debris, but not correct the chemistry of the water when the waste goes up? only water changes can make water healthy again. also RO water doesnt have minerals. every animal on the planet needs minerals. why then buy something to put it back in, when it can already be in there!

    i will spare you all the rest of my rant. :mad:

    i'm glad this forum is here or my fish wouldnt be as healthy as they are. and, i feel less crazy!
     
  6. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    i am learning that no one but goldfish keepers understand goldfish keeping
     
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  7. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    glad you like it

    I will add some thoughts. When the bep were given to me i gave them to the curator of the Cleveland Aquarium. He told me that in the history of the aquarium two fish groups were impossible to keep. Goldfish was the first he mentioned. He set up the bep with flow thru and biological (sweater box with ug). He did well and kept them for me until i sent them around.
    He started the aquarium with 4 gar fish caught in the Rocky River in 1954. All four fish are still swimming in a display 2013. he knows how to keep fish alive and healthy. I have a lot of older fish 10,11,12 and 13 yrs. old. I use sponge and water change. I remove with wc what a large filtration system would . I use a lot of good well water. Low in oxygen i have to agitate the water quite heavily. To keep the kidneys functioning for longevity the water has to be clean. heavy filtration, low stocking density or Frequent, Large, WATER CHANGES .
     
  8. Ichthius

    Ichthius Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Eugene Oregon
    Can you elaborate on what a large filtration system would remove that your water changes replicate?

    I have large systems both at home and work and the basically do the same thing as a sponge filter, just easier to clean.
     
  9. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    yes

    I feel i get the same results with wc and sponge as my associates get with, reverse O. bead, uv and under gravel, although my system is relatively simple when viewed by their eyes. Should have said wc with sponge filter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  10. Ichthius

    Ichthius Professional Breeder

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Location:
    Eugene Oregon
    Yes , other than Ro removing minutia from your water source, and uv sterilizing (rather greatly reducing microbes than sterilizing) sponges and beads or sand do the same thing. Convert ammonia to nitrate and collect solids.

    You still have to do the water changes!
     
  11. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against canisters and mechanical filters with carbon, but I got upset that he was so adamant that what I was doing was wrong to the point that I felt like I was getting lectured. So many people treat goldfish like they are some ordinary simple fish. Anyhow, I will continue my big weekly changes!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    55 gallon / Poret Wall (red waffle sponge) / Whisper 100 pump / 3 butterflies
     
  12. small_ranchu

    small_ranchu Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Bergen, New Jersey
    If you talk about taking advise from any business entity, 8 out 10 times you will get a bias suggestion. I was told to change filter insert every month.. :-S. Finally it's all about their business..

    For now... i just look for a way how to do waterchange easily. I wish I can automate my system like my friend does..
     
  13. gillian

    gillian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    Yes, however I can water change more easily makes me happy. I recently bought a few items to ease it all... A garden hose that's lead & phthalate free, a male hose coupler (to attach it to the siphon), hose-faucet adapter for refilling and coincidentally, a blood worm floating feeder fits on the end of my siphon in the tank, so I jimmy it on there and I can walk away without worrying about a fish getting sucked in, after I "vacuumed" the debris on the bottom.

    Both draining and refilling, I can do other nearby tasks now. I also marked off 5 gallon increments on the tank with sharpie on the side near the back to keep a rough idea of how many gallons I'm changing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    possible thinking on not changing water

    Originally salt water was trucked in or sold from rail road cars. Once purchased you used that water till it evaporated. Any and all methods were used to clean it. I am guessing as filtration improved on the market it made the business sector save the water they had.. With fresh water aquariums save the water as in some cases it costs to dump the water and it costs to buy the water. I think some of the business models are founded on the premise water is expensive or quality water is to hard to find and water in some areas is scarce, so save all the water you can. Some states regulate discharge water so most of it is recirculated. With these problems the emphasis is on cleaning what you already have, polishing and maintaining a certain water quality better than raw water. Water changes are viewed as wasting water by some.
    We have found some sewer systems can't handle large amounts of water, again purging a commercial tank would be difficult, dumping salt water impossible. Industry thinks to clean not dump. Just my thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
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  15. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Location:
    Cloverdale California USA
    I think 100% water changes are safe

    In my experience 100% water changes are safe. Goldfish can withstand radical changes in PH and salinity but are very sensitive to temperature variation. I think the only danger in changing the water is the persons inability to get the water to a perfect match or .5 degrees warmer. I can site some scientific studies if you like. Would you like them in Mandarin or English?

    Glenn Dalton
     
  16. chocky

    chocky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Location:
    WA, Australia
    Swings or sudden changes in pH are not good for any type of goldfish - common or fancy.
     
  17. bluebelly

    bluebelly Ambassador

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    chesterland,ohio,usa
    water change

     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
  18. showbeagle

    showbeagle showbeagle

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Location:
    USA
    Hi, @Cincy Ranchu

    I was reading your post and its very insteresting. Im curious how you are using the porret foam. Are they mounted on the walls of the tanks? Do you have a picture of your current set up?

    Thanks!
     
  19. kitkat12

    kitkat12 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Location:
    U.S.
    Hi guys, I'm new here and I made a posting in the newbies section but I'm gonna cross post it here as it applies to this thread- which is great by the way!

    One of the ladies that works at a LFS that I like to frequent had a fit when I told her I do 10%-15% water changes twice a week on my tanks and they each get vacuumed then too. She was like that's way too much, your gonna kill your fish! She said I should only be doing a 25% water change once a month! I said well this works for me as I have to manually do my water changes because when my mom remodeled the house the new faucets can't have a hose hooked up to them! I'm short and I have a bad back and I'm physically limited, so I can't handle more than what I'm doing in a day and I have to space them throughout the day. I clean all the filter sponges every week or so by squeezing out into the dirty tank water I remove, I use prime water conditioner, use the aquarium salt regularly... I said well I must be doin something right cause my fish are happy, healthy & growing out beautifully! My plants are beautiful green and growing and no algae in any tanks. I am going to have her contractor do me a hose hookup in the one bathroom, which is attached to my bedroom, that will greatly help especially with the 100gallon tank I have to set up!

    And I'm testing my tanks before those water changes, so I know if ammonia/nitrites/nitrates...are present & if the numbers aren't where I like them then I can adjust how much water I change, amount of prime, I also use purigen, ammo chips (and have activated charcoal if needed). I also have my supplies to make some airdriven intank moving biofilters. I'm also here like all the time with my fish, I love watching them as it's very relaxing for me. So I know very quickly if one is acting "off". I just recently got some beautiful baby panda butterfly, well I put them in a 10 gallon quarantine tank with 2 multistage air driven corner filters, cycled tank, good water parameters, ammochips with air drive... Well it was clear very quickly they weren't happy with the arrangement! I quickly got a new large plastic square container, put the airstone/small filter in it and a single decoration that has cubbies in it they can swim through- well long story short they are happy as can be! Go figure. So I'm doing complete water change every 2 days on these little ones (and they are tiny). I don't know what to think, maybe they shouldn't have even been for sale yet being so small, the stress of shipping...but I know the store had them on quarantine/ antibiotics for 2-3 weeks before they released them for sale as a precaution because as the one guy said they just thought they were acting a bit "off". Now each of their tanks is on it's own 2 air driven sponge filters in 30gallon tanks to help prevent cross tank contamination (as they should be). And there were alot of the baby pandas in that tank, some of course way more active than others, and of course I chose ones that were very active and swimming well. So hopefully given a month more they will be settled/grown enough that I can put them in the bigger tank. They are active, eating well, growing and had them for 3 weeks now...But I do have plants in the bigger tank too, anybody else ever had this happen?

    I'm sure if I say the name of this store there are at least 2 people on here who will know of the place because of the area local & they have been in business for 30+yrs.

    Now when I was down home out in the boondocks and had my koi outside it was soooooooo wonderful! I had pure crystal clear spring water from a 400+foot deep well! My friends who all lived in town would come out and fill tons of jugs for their drinking and aquarium water! My fish were so happy as I kept a freshwater drip system going continually for them. I visited a koi breeding farm in Central Ohio, really great folks and they really helped me to get everything going properly. I got thrown into the koi fish all very suddenly LOL from an older couple who had a pond for 40+ yrs! So I had no idea what I was doing at first, but I immediately learned how fresh water impacts the fish. The couple's pond liner had finally sprung a leak, so the kids got them a big blow up swimming pool and put the fish in it with a pump to circulate and some of the plants. Well the water was BLACK, and I mean black as the ace of spades! Like I thought the old guy was nuts that there were fish living in that thing! So he went and got the pellet food and sure enough threw some in and it was like the water was boiling! LOL I couldn't believe it! I don't know how those fish survived like that. I was giving fish to everybody I knew LOL, there were over 350 fish!!!! I actually stopped counting. I bought 5 of the big huge 50 gallon tub totes to transport them all home.

    Well I won't keep you any longer. I think you all experienced folks on here are great to share your wealth of knowledge freely to help so many others!
     
  20. goldfishntn

    goldfishntn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Location:
    Tn/USA
    When we talk water changes best practices ...?
    City chlorinated tap water that we Primed or conditioned?
    Or if not that?
    And for breeder vs. non breeders.
    Thanks.
     

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