Lavender Ryukins

[misty_blue16137]

Here are all four of my Ryukins. Two are lavender w/chocolate and two mostly lavender. (1 male,2 female,1 unknown)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Ryukin/1-04-083.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Ryukin/1-04-085.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Ryukin/1-04-083.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Ryukin/10-29-08035.jpg

[small_ranchu]

Hey, This is one of the thread I am waiting for. They look very beautiful. Do you have the pic of the whole tank? :)

[misty_blue16137]

Hey, This is one of the thread I am waiting for. They look very beautiful. Do you have the pic of the whole tank? :)

Here ya go.:)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Telescopes/1-04-08001.jpg

[small_ranchu]

looks nice. What kinda filter are you using?

[misty_blue16137]

Emperor 400 and a Fluval 404 cannister. Thinking about adding a adding a Penguin 330 later this week as well.

[ak47_chicago]

Here ya go.:)

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/misty_blue16137/Telescopes/1-04-08001.jpg

Emperor 400. with twin lights(one blue one white). Right?? I knew. I have good eyes.

[ak47_chicago]

Emperor 400 and a Fluval 404 cannister. Thinking about adding a adding a Penguin 330 later this week as well.

LOL, misty, Look at the time when we reply. Both of us reply him at 6:30 :)

[misty_blue16137]

Emperor 400. with twin lights(one blue one white). Right?? I knew. I have good eyes.

Yep on the Emperor 400. I honestly don't know on the lights,lol. I bought the complete outfit used on E-Bay and that's the lights that came with it. I'm thinking about replacing them as they don't really show the fish that well. Probably the bulbs are old.

[misty_blue16137]

LOL, misty, Look at the time when we reply. Both of us reply him at 6:30 :)

I never would have noticed, lol!

[Cincy Ranchu]

How old are they and have they spawned?

[Jed]

Kathy, I have to agree with Fred. I've been waiting for these pictures. They are beautiful, and so is the tank.

BTW...I think I saw another lavender in Ken's auction. Just thought I would let you know.:BackOut:

[small_ranchu]

BTW...I think I saw another lavender in Ken's auction. Just thought I would let you know.:BackOut:

:lol: There you go..

[johnatoranchu]

Hi Kathy
Beautiful fish but why are you calling them Ryukin? Cannot see any sign of Ryukin's main characteristic - the hump - on any of them. I know I've only photos to go on but I'd call them Veiltails - that would make their value increase if nothing else!
John

[flaringshutter]

I agree with john, they look like veiltails to me but I'm no expert. They're gorgeous, whatever you call them! I love that lavender/chocolate mix.

[misty_blue16137]

How old are they and have they spawned?

I don't know how old they are. It wasn't listed in the auction and I never thought to ask.
Two of the females have but did not save any eggs to see if the male did his job. Not set up for babies at this point. Hoping to save some later in the spring if they cooperate.


Kathy, I have to agree with Fred. I've been waiting for these pictures. They are beautiful, and so is the tank.

Thanks Jed!

BTW...I think I saw another lavender in Ken's auction. Just thought I would let you know.:BackOut:

I know, I know, lol. But I have the four and that is about all the 55 can handle easily. I really don't want to overstock.

Hi Kathy
Beautiful fish but why are you calling them Ryukin? Cannot see any sign of Ryukin's main characteristic - the hump - on any of them. I know I've only photos to go on but I'd call them Veiltails - that would make their value increase if nothing else!
John

I agree with john, they look like veiltails to me but I'm no expert. They're gorgeous, whatever you call them! I love that lavender/chocolate mix.

Thank You! I know they don't look very Ryukin as far as that classic hump goes but Broadtail Ryukin is what they are being sold as by both Ken at Dandy Oranda and Tommy at Goldfishnet in their auctions. I got them because I loved the color and they are beautiful with or without a hump. I don't show or really breed so they are basically pets for me. Truthfully they have a very similiar body build to my lavender w/choc.Telescope, Skye. :youtellme:

[misty_blue16137]

:lol: There you go..
Just hush, I am trying to be good, rofl!:angel:

[Jed]

Would the hump be visible in a young fish? Also, how long does it take for a ryukin to develop a hump.

[joe]

I got one of those lavender ryukins for x-mas. Pictures do not do them justice, they are the most unsual color I have seen. not blue, not grey but this off shade of purple. I can see why you became addicted to that color. I have named mine ghost because he looks so surreal when I look at him

[misty_blue16137]

I got one of those lavender ryukins for x-mas. Pictures do not do them justice, they are the most unsual color I have seen. not blue, not grey but this off shade of purple. I can see why you became addicted to that color. I have named mine ghost because he looks so surreal when I look at him

It really is hard to get a true pic of the color. Course most of my lights need replacing which doesn't help.

[wendylove]

They are just beautiful and with such sweet faces.
I have two lovely lavender orandas i purchased a few months ago and agree pictures do their coloring no justice.

[johnatoranchu]

Would the hump be visible in a young fish? Also, how long does it take for a ryukin to develop a hump.
Have never kept Ryukin myself but have seen hundreds of one inch specimens with acceptable pronounced humps. If I was judging these fish I would disqualify them from a Ryukin class but pass them in a Veiltail class. Maybe that's why I've only been invited to judge in the States ONCE!
John

[small_ranchu]

I am not sure how do you judge (or how people behave toward the standard) in UK. In Asia forum, I've seen a lot of ryukin w/ humps as pet.

But in US, importers are selling the one with small hamp (or no hamp) as Ryukin for big $$$. I hope we are not buying pet quality fish paying AAA price.

[misty_blue16137]

They are just beautiful and with such sweet faces.
I have two lovely lavender orandas i purchased a few months ago and agree pictures do their coloring no justice.

Lavender Oranda's??? Can you post pics?

[flaringshutter]

Personally I like the ryukin type without an enormous hump. I think these are much prettier than some of the blocky, lumpy ryukins. Great finnage too!

[johnatoranchu]

I am not sure how do you judge (or how people behave toward the standard) in UK. In Asia forum, I've seen a lot of ryukin w/ humps as pet.

But in US, importers are selling the one with small hamp (or no hamp) as Ryukin for big $$$. I hope we are not buying pet quality fish paying AAA price.

Hi Fred
The major characteristic of the Ryukin is its hump and therefore regardless of the price tag, if it has not got a good hump it cannot be considered to be a quality Ryukin! For a short while, before the quality of the Goldfish Society of America's Report took a total nose dive in both quality and regularity, the GFSA featured a series of articles on judging a class of "photos" of various varieties of goldfish and I was invited to contribute. When we were invited to comment on a class of Ryukin I was amazed that most of the American judges favoured a very long tailed fish which one of the judges had said he thought was so good he had made it Grand Champion when judging it at a real show. I placed it well down in the class for it didn't have a proper hump, just a steep "ski-slope" from nose to dorsal fin. American Goldfish Show Standards are not as rigid as the ones we have in the UK, for example all twin tailed varieties, both with or without a dorsal fin MUST have division in the tail and twin anal fins. Any fish - Veiltails, Fantails, Moors, Ryukin, Orandas, Ranchu, Lionheads, Bubble-eyes etc., etc. which have joined tails or single anals must be/are disqualified. This is not the case in the USA. Hopefully one or more American judges will venture an opinion as to how they would rate a hump-less Ryukin for their opinion would of course be far more valuable to forum members than mine.
So are we being conned? Yes, of course we are but not necessarily by individuals, but by the whole "industry". Let me give you a further example. Some years ago when the Butterfly (Moor) was being developed, a significant number of fry had straight, veil tails. Initially these were culled but then, and I don't know how/when or by whom it was realised that we in the West treasured and appreciated Veiltails and Broadtailed Moors which of course ideally have straight veil tails so instead of dumping these culls they were not only sold to us but also sold at a higher price than the original variety, the butterfly! I'm not complaining. The opposite in fact - that's what I call good business. And we bought them BECAUSE THEY WERE WHAT WE WANTED.
What I think is far more worrying is that the "lavender" fish posts have highlighted, in my opinion, that varieties are being misnamed. As you can see from other posts I have made today/yesterday not only are there Ryukin which, in my view, are not Ryukin but now there are Orandas which are not Orandas. Quite where "you" go from here I'm not certain and so long as the fish are liked (they are beautiful fish, particularly the Veiltails - oops sorry should have said Ryukin) and kept as pets then no damage is done but if they are bred (the Veiltails - oops sorry there I go again, I meant Ryukin, should be, it's criminal not to) and/or shown (particularly if they come up against a judge like me) then disappointment/disenchantment will almost certainly follow.
Sorry, I tend to go on a bit. Blame Gary - he suggested I joined this forum!!!
John

[bigbettadan]

I for one am SO GLAD you joined, and agree 100% with your comments. A ryukin is not a ryukin without a hump, it is a fantail.......

I guess that is why prefer Japanese fish and standards. The breed to an exact standard. Thats breeders art folks. I hate "trade names" which ruinned the betta hobby, for a quick buck....

Along the same subject, I would like to see chinese ranchu or lionchu be called chinese Lionhead or lionchu. True ranchu were developed to specific standards by the Japanese and should be bred as such...

Dan

[small_ranchu]

John,
We are glad to have you here and your input are so precious to us. We are learning a lot from you. That will be great if we can get the UK standard (it might go to the front page).

[misty_blue16137]

Hi Fred
The major characteristic of the Ryukin is its hump and therefore regardless of the price tag, if it has not got a good hump it cannot be considered to be a quality Ryukin! For a short while, before the quality of the Goldfish Society of America's Report took a total nose dive in both quality and regularity, the GFSA featured a series of articles on judging a class of "photos" of various varieties of goldfish and I was invited to contribute. When we were invited to comment on a class of Ryukin I was amazed that most of the American judges favoured a very long tailed fish which one of the judges had said he thought was so good he had made it Grand Champion when judging it at a real show. I placed it well down in the class for it didn't have a proper hump, just a steep "ski-slope" from nose to dorsal fin. American Goldfish Show Standards are not as rigid as the ones we have in the UK, for example all twin tailed varieties, both with or without a dorsal fin MUST have division in the tail and twin anal fins. Any fish - Veiltails, Fantails, Moors, Ryukin, Orandas, Ranchu, Lionheads, Bubble-eyes etc., etc. which have joined tails or single anals must be/are disqualified. This is not the case in the USA. Hopefully one or more American judges will venture an opinion as to how they would rate a hump-less Ryukin for their opinion would of course be far more valuable to forum members than mine.
So are we being conned? Yes, of course we are but not necessarily by individuals, but by the whole "industry". Let me give you a further example. Some years ago when the Butterfly (Moor) was being developed, a significant number of fry had straight, veil tails. Initially these were culled but then, and I don't know how/when or by whom it was realised that we in the West treasured and appreciated Veiltails and Broadtailed Moors which of course ideally have straight veil tails so instead of dumping these culls they were not only sold to us but also sold at a higher price than the original variety, the butterfly! I'm not complaining. The opposite in fact - that's what I call good business. And we bought them BECAUSE THEY WERE WHAT WE WANTED.
What I think is far more worrying is that the "lavender" fish posts have highlighted, in my opinion, that varieties are being misnamed. As you can see from other posts I have made today/yesterday not only are there Ryukin which, in my view, are not Ryukin but now there are Orandas which are not Orandas. Quite where "you" go from here I'm not certain and so long as the fish are liked (they are beautiful fish, particularly the Veiltails - oops sorry should have said Ryukin) and kept as pets then no damage is done but if they are bred (the Veiltails - oops sorry there I go again, I meant Ryukin, should be, it's criminal not to) and/or shown (particularly if they come up against a judge like me) then disappointment/disenchantment will almost certainly follow.
Sorry, I tend to go on a bit. Blame Gary - he suggested I joined this forum!!!
John

So basically you are saying my beauties are duds as Ryukins but not bad as Veiltails? I can live with that, lol. Maybe that's how I should start referring to them as? :youtellme:
I do have to admit first time I saw the Lavender Ryukins on the auctions I thought they were Fantails and I have yet to see one with any real "hump" such as most Ryukins have. Guess in the rush to make money on a new color, breed/type characteristics are being ignored, much like in the purebred dog world. For me they are beautiful pets, as I don't show and am not into serious breeding. At most I will probably try and raise a few fry here and there for myself and any friends that might be interested.
One thing I am curious about tho'. Do you think the lavender color will breed true or is it apt to be unstable at this point in time?

[thomasn]

Good post John. I looked at Ken's pics to illustrate the point. They were both called ryukin. In light of your comments, I can appreciate the veiltail more as a "veiltail" rather than a "ryukin".

veiltail
http://www.goldfishconnection.com/uploads/thumbs/AUC_109_9_1.JPG


ryukin
http://www.goldfishconnection.com/uploads/thumbs/AUC_109_21.JPG

-----
Thomas

[flaringshutter]

I know that Steve makes a point of separating ryukins from fantails on his website, and I think it's something more of us should move toward even in casual discussion. It makes things so much clearer for non-breeders like me! Veiltails and fantails are pretty enough to be appreciated separately from true, traditional ryukins, IMO.

[johnatoranchu]

So basically you are saying my beauties are duds as Ryukins but not bad as Veiltails? I can live with that, lol. Maybe that's how I should start referring to them as? :youtellme:
I do have to admit first time I saw the Lavender Ryukins on the auctions I thought they were Fantails and I have yet to see one with any real "hump" such as most Ryukins have. Guess in the rush to make money on a new color, breed/type characteristics are being ignored, much like in the purebred dog world. For me they are beautiful pets, as I don't show and am not into serious breeding. At most I will probably try and raise a few fry here and there for myself and any friends that might be interested.
One thing I am curious about tho'. Do you think the lavender color will breed true or is it apt to be unstable at this point in time?

Look on the bright side Kathy, not everyone likes Ryukin but virtually everyone loves Veiltails. Had they been advertised/sold as Veiltails am almost certain that price would have been doubled at the very least. These fish are best bought as Ryukin but sold as Veiltails! Many, many congratulations - YOU'VE BEATEN THE TRADERS!!!!!!!!!
Now to be serious; I don't know the genetics involved in producing lavenders but I'd love to as indeed I am sure would virtually every serious hobbyist in the West which is why please, please, please breed them or if you cannot, please share them with someone who can. Government and airline restrictions mean that I can no longer bring Goldfish back with me the way I did following my first goldfishing trip to Cincinnati in 2001. If I could then I would willingly drive from Cincinnati to your home (wherever it is) and back again (and all on the Wrong side of the road) with every $ I could lay my hands on in an attempt to prise these fish away from you. With the exception of the photos of the real Ranchu which Paul posted (they're even better than my Ranchu, Paul!!!) your fish are 100 times better than any other I've seen on this site, at least that's my view. So, please become a SERIOUS Goldfish Hobbyist and breed them, please God you've got a pair! Unfortunately if you do not have the facilities to breed them, I cannot be your partner so, even more unfortunately, you will probably finish up with an American. Now the big trouble with American goldfish people is that given the smallest opportunity they will interbreed everything with everything - (just look at recent posts - Veiltails to Ryukin to Telescopes to Orandas - what a mess) - so put your foot down and insist that they are bred true. And, if you get the opportunity, buy some more but remember to call them Ryukin!
May 2009 be full of Lavender Veiltails.
John

[misty_blue16137]

Look on the bright side Kathy, not everyone likes Ryukin but virtually everyone loves Veiltails. Had they been advertised/sold as Veiltails am almost certain that price would have been doubled at the very least. These fish are best bought as Ryukin but sold as Veiltails! Many, many congratulations - YOU'VE BEATEN THE TRADERS!!!!!!!!!
Now to be serious; I don't know the genetics involved in producing lavenders but I'd love to as indeed I am sure would virtually every serious hobbyist in the West which is why please, please, please breed them or if you cannot, please share them with someone who can. Government and airline restrictions mean that I can no longer bring Goldfish back with me the way I did following my first goldfishing trip to Cincinnati in 2001. If I could then I would willingly drive from Cincinnati to your home (wherever it is) and back again (and all on the Wrong side of the road) with every $ I could lay my hands on in an attempt to prise these fish away from you. With the exception of the photos of the real Ranchu which Paul posted (they're even better than my Ranchu, Paul!!!) your fish are 100 times better than any other I've seen on this site, at least that's my view. So, please become a SERIOUS Goldfish Hobbyist and breed them, please God you've got a pair! Unfortunately if you do not have the facilities to breed them, I cannot be your partner so, even more unfortunately, you will probably finish up with an American. Now the big trouble with American goldfish people is that given the smallest opportunity they will interbreed everything with everything - (just look at recent posts - Veiltails to Ryukin to Telescopes to Orandas - what a mess) - so put your foot down and insist that they are bred true. And, if you get the opportunity, buy some more but remember to call them Ryukin!
May 2009 be full of Lavender Veiltails.
John

Well, since I didn't actually buy them because they were Ryukin but because I loved the looks and color of these particular fish I'm really tickled with your evaluation of them, lol. Of the four, I have two known females and one for sure male with one not sure of yet. Both females have already spawned not long after I got them but did not save any eggs. I really don't have the ways and means to become a truely serious breeder but do hope to raise at least a few fry from these guys.