One of my self-bred oranda

[HNLim]

Since no one have started posting under this topic, I will start the ball rolling with one of my self-bred oranda. This picture was taken some 5 months ago. I have sent her to several competitions and she has not won anything until the Fish-hub Competition on the 26th December 2008 which she won second price. I will update her picture sometime towards the end of this month.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2wcqo9t.jpg

[Ichthius]

Great fish. Do you have pictures of the parents?

<}}}><

[HNLim]

Great fish. Do you have pictures of the parents?

<}}}><
I did not manage to capture the picture of the mother however she looks something like this fella (daughter).
http://i44.tinypic.com/ml5b91.jpg

This is the proud father.
http://i39.tinypic.com/igbuq9.jpg

[flaringshutter]

Spectacular coloring on the award-winner there, nice and rich. She's very pretty. Congrats on the award!

[sweetshannon]

Her colors are so beautiful......wow. Nice job.

[small_ranchu]

I wish he gets his father's head when he grows older. And longer tail as well. Is it somehting we can improve or genetic?

[johnatoranchu]

This fish looks very attractive but it would not do well in England as our show standard demands that Orandas must have "veiltail" finnage. Could you possibly send us a copy of the show standard and pointing system which are used in Singapore?
John

[Sabine]

Great looking orandas, all 3 of them! The father too is a very beautiful fish.
How old was the fish when the first photo was taken? Her colours are gorgeous! Congrats on your winner :)

[HNLim]

This fish looks very attractive but it would not do well in England as our show standard demands that Orandas must have "veiltail" finnage. Could you possibly send us a copy of the show standard and pointing system which are used in Singapore?
John
In Singapore, we do not have a fixed point system as different competition invites different judges from different countries and for the bigger competitions, judges comes from Thailand, China, Taiwan, Malaysia and Indonesia. To date, I am not aware if there is any fixed system that we adopt.

My personal view is that a goldfish must "catch the eye" at first glance. The overall form and deportment are important consideration.

How about showing us pictures of winners in some of your competitions?

[HNLim]

Great looking orandas, all 3 of them! The father too is a very beautiful fish.
How old was the fish when the first photo was taken? Her colours are gorgeous! Congrats on your winner :)
She was hatched on the 17th November 2007.

This is her "Back-side" view.
http://i40.tinypic.com/351fplf.jpg

Just look at how she has transformed/changed over the months.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2vsng1t.png

[bigbettadan]

The trouble with not having a standard, is it is way to subjective in the judging process. In 05, As the standards chair for the IBC, we were asked to train judges in Asia on our exact standards. We used aquarama, and had over 30 trainees. It has made a good impact, but still has a ways to go. Money has a impact, as well as fish sales unfortunately. JMO...

Dan

[bekko]

Standards are good but when standards are used to develop a point system the process falls apart - in my humble opinion. You can't judge parts and ignore the whole fish. Also, it is hard to assign points to "presence" and "charisma". Terry Cussigh wrote a great article on this subject for the Goldfish Report a year-or-so ago.

HNLim, the way the black comes and goes on that piece is very unusual, isn't it?

-steve

[bigbettadan]

Thats where a good judge comes into play. They see the whole, as well as the parts. In my experience, your best judges are usually good breeders......

Dan

[Guenther]

Just look at how she has transformed/changed over the months.


There was a great change in colour and especially black between October 08 and December 08.
How come?

[HNLim]

Standards are good but when standards are used to develop a point system the process falls apart - in my humble opinion. You can't judge parts and ignore the whole fish. Also, it is hard to assign points to "presence" and "charisma". Terry Cussigh wrote a great article on this subject for the Goldfish Report a year-or-so ago.

HNLim, the way the black comes and goes on that piece is very unusual, isn't it?

-steve

There was a great change in colour and especially black between October 08 and December 08.
How come?
I have no idea what is happening. It seems that this bloodline has this "problem". The father has this problem. Several of his children has this problem. Now into its second generation, it seems two of them has this problem now.

Maybe it is my poor cartaking.

[Ichthius]

You have a decoloring gene. If the mother was a red and white fish she carries the gene that eventually kills the melanophores. All the black will go away.

<}}}><

[HNLim]

You have a decoloring gene. If the mother was a red and white fish she carries the gene that eventually kills the melanophores. All the black will go away.

<}}}><
This is a sibling of the above fish. She has grown darker by the day.
http://i41.tinypic.com/23wqhpi.jpg

[demdamdemekins]

A beautiful line of orandas HN, if the fish are developing and keeping black color later on, maybe it'd be better to focus on attempting to mangify the trait rather than breed it out?

The problem with standards is getting them to keep pace with development. How many of the beautiful new varieties that we have seen over the past few years would get absolutely crapped on by US standards? Short fins or ryukirans anyone? As far as the Asian judging system goes, all the judges know what a good fish is supposed to look like, and that should be enough, as it gives them the proper leeway to accept all these new changes at a much faster pace than "we" can. Sorry, but the thought of Western judges teaching Asian judges about how goldies should look sounds more than a bit counterintuitive to me. Maybe I misunderstand the situation...

[HNLim]

I did not manage to capture the picture of the mother however she looks something like this fella (daughter).
http://i44.tinypic.com/ml5b91.jpg

This is the proud father.
http://i39.tinypic.com/igbuq9.jpg
This is how he looks like in January 2008. Notice the black appearing compared to the above picture taken on September 2007. Unfortunately he died due to a power trip while I was on holiday in Shanghai a week or so later. Unfortunately I will never know how black he can grow to be.
http://i43.tinypic.com/1zgx4iq.jpg

[bigbettadan]

I was referring to bettas there(the International betta congress).....

As far as goldfish go, I think the Japanese are way ahead of the curve when it comes to judging and standards....

An F1 anamoly does not make a new breed in my book, sorry, that dog will not hunt for me. Instead of racing to develop new ones, let develop the current ones..

Dan

[HNLim]

I was referring to bettas there(the International betta congress).....

As far as goldfish go, I think the Japanese are way ahead of the curve when it comes to judging and standards....

An F1 anamoly does not make a new breed in my book, sorry, that dog will not hunt for me. Instead of racing to develop new ones, let develop the current ones..

Dan
Breeding is a "fun game" for me especially breeding orandas. Colour has always been secondary to me. I love orandas regardless of colour and its pattern. I love orandas with hooded wen, buffalo cheeks and wenless gill plates. I love their fins and tails to be wide spreading and broad. Dorsal fin to be broad, long and erected. Its form matters most to me and not its colour. Now that some have highlighted to me about the black genes, I might just be lucky to end up with a tri-colour oranda breed.:yess:

One of the goal that I have set for myself is to win in the oranda class in our local and international competition. The best I have done so far with my self-bred oranda is third placing in an international competition and second placing in our local competition. Still a very long way to go for me.

This "breeding journey", though haphazard has been wonderful and fulfilling, not to mention the smile I bring to the many who have a chance to raise many of the fries that I am not able to.

[bigbettadan]

Congrats on your hard work, and breeding a champion is much more rewarding than buying one!

Dan

[HNLim]

Congrats on your hard work, and breeding a champion is much more rewarding than buying one!

Dan
This I fully agree with you. However I am still a long way from it. The best they have won is only second in a small local competition.

[demdamdemekins]

An F1 anamoly does not make a new breed in my book, sorry, that dog will not hunt for me. Instead of racing to develop new ones, let develop the current ones...

You as a breeder should know better than any of us, that the aforementioned new strains are hardly the progeny of f1 unions, but rather the product of concerted breeding efforts. How about we let the Thai and Japanese worry about perfecting conformation and let the Chinese run wild figuring out all the possible new colors.

[HNLim]

You as a breeder should know better than any of us, that the aforementioned new strains are hardly the progeny of f1 unions, but rather the product of concerted breeding efforts. How about we let the Thai and Japanese worry about perfecting conformation and let the Chinese run wild figuring out all the possible new colors.
That's what progress is all about.

[bigbettadan]

Sorry for being so foreword,

I have seen this happen in the betta world, and don't want it to take over the goldfish hobby......

Plus here in the US, the biggest problem is getting good Japanese stock and lack of undertstanding of their standards. Thats what I am trying to inprove...

Dan

[HNLim]

Sorry for being so foreword,

I have seen this happen in the betta world, and don't want it to take over the goldfish hobby......

Plus here in the US, the biggest problem is getting good Japanese stock and lack of undertstanding of their standards. Thats what I am trying to inprove...

Dan
"Small stones become big obstacles when we take our eyes off our goal".

So! "Just Do It", "Yes You Can".

[demdamdemekins]

There are whole countries of goldfish breeders to which we as Americans have no access. I have yet to see any US sources for Indo or Malay goldfish, let alone probably 90% of the farms in China. Seems most of the time, like our only viable sources for quality stock are Thai or Tung Hoi fish.

[Ichthius]

I can get Malay fish from transshippers. I've always stuck with the Shanghai fish though.

<}}}><

[ak47_chicago]

Is there any Transhippers in Chicago area? any recommand? Thanks