What is a cull?

[HNLim]

I have been throwing away and giving away hundreds and hundres of goldfish. Many many when they are fry stage, some when they are several months old and some about two years old. Most of the bigger fish are ready for competition.

Are all those fish that I throw and give away considered as cull?

[small_ranchu]

As far as I understand, culling the process of excluding an individual from the group which doesn't meet the desire characteristic of the selector.

Yes, you are culling.

[HNLim]

As far as I understand, culling the process of excluding an individual from the group which doesn't meet the desire characteristic of the selector.

Yes, you are culling.
Many a times, I gave away the bigger fish because of lack of space. Is that culling?

[jinyu_fan]

I would not call giving away a perfectly good fish due to lack of space culling. Rather, you are re-homing that fish. But if you are giving away the bigger fish because you have discover some undesirable trait not previously seen, then that is culling.

[suphi]

Culling is the 'selection' (usually removing and killing) of surplus animals from an animal population. For farmers, it can also means removing and selling instead of killing. Confused yet?:youtellme:

[HNLim]

Would selling off your unwanted fish as feeders be considered as cull even if the buyer subsequently keep the fish as pets?

[thomasn]

Would selling off your unwanted fish as feeders be considered as cull even if the buyer subsequently keep the fish as pets?

what about this: would selling off your unwanted fish as feeders be considered as cull or food? :youtellme:

[HNLim]

I would not call giving away a perfectly good fish due to lack of space culling. Rather, you are re-homing that fish. But if you are giving away the bigger fish because you have discover some undesirable trait not previously seen, then that is culling.
Have you ever seen a "perfect goldfish" before. I certainly have not seen one before.

[cowiche ponder]

Would selling off your unwanted fish as feeders be considered as cull even if the buyer subsequently keep the fish as pets?

Coming from more experience with another species...namely rabbits..yes

I raise my rabbits primarily for show. There are always many that do not make the show standard (as with fish) and they are removed from the barn. Some are sold at pets to other people..in my eyes they are still culls because I didn't want them. There is the occasional show animal that I may sell. It is still being culled (removed from the herd) with a nicer title :yes:

From websters.com Cull verb 1: to select from a group : choose <culled the best passages from the poet's work> 2: to reduce or control the size of (as a herd) by removal (as by hunting) of especially weaker animals ; also : to hunt or kill (animals) as a means of population control

noun : something rejected especially as being inferior or worthless <how to separate good-looking pecans from culls — Washington Post>

Interesting that it can also mean to select out.

[jinyu_fan]

Have you ever seen a "perfect goldfish" before. I certainly have not seen one before.

If you reread my post, I said a "perfectly good fish" and not a "perfect goldfish" - entirely different meaning!

[HNLim]

If you reread my post, I said a "perfectly good fish" and not a "perfect goldfish" - entirely different meaning!
Sorry but what is the defination of a perfectly good fish? Can you give an example of a perfectly good fish?

[Daryl]

Here we have a problem in defintion - for what might be considered to be a "perfectly good fish" for one person - or one use, may be a "cull" to another. I still stand by the "removed from a population" definition. Any fish or creature or plant, etc. that is removed from a population, by any means is "culled". That does not mean it has to be inferior - just removed because it is not wanted in that population. It may be removed from lack of room, for the money it can produce when sold, or it may be removed because it is not needed or going to be used for show, breeding or as a "pet".

Most goldfish are GREAT fish. Some are show fish, some have characteristics that one breeder may wish to introduce or carry in a line, some may not. Some may have flaws in conformation that would eliminate them from the show bench or from serious genetic contributions, but can make splendid "pets" for those who simply like fish and find them pretty for one reason or another.

I have fish that have mixed genetic backgrounds. I cull the fish that do not represent the characteristics I am seeking to perpetrate. The fish I cull are often considered "ideal" by others that are seeking THOSE particular genetic traits. Interestingly enough, they may "cull" a fish that I would consider valuable. Many fish are fine - big and healthy and strong and have lovely colors and finnage. They just are NOT what a breeder is needing - either because they already have numerous ones just like the fish or the fish does not carry what they want. The fish is sold as a pet or a showfish to someone else. It is a "cull" to the original breeder, it is a showfish or a pet fish or a breeder to someone else.

The word "cull" has come to be a rather derogatory term - used for a "useless" or "worthless" creature or thing. But that is an incomplete and fairly inaccurate defintion. On the farm, we "cull" baby bulls - they are sold as breeder bulls in many cases - bringing big money. But to a dairy farm - they are CULLS.

A "perfectly good fish" is a fish that gives pleasure to someone. To that particular person, the fish is perfectly good. To one that is looking for something "different", it is not. It is an individual judgement - for each person finds beauty and utility in different things, different fish.

JMO :)

[HNLim]

Here we have a problem in defintion - for what might be considered to be a "perfectly good fish" for one person - or one use, may be a "cull" to another. I still stand by the "removed from a population" definition. Any fish or creature or plant, etc. that is removed from a population, by any means is "culled". That does not mean it has to be inferior - just removed because it is not wanted in that population. It may be removed from lack of room, for the money it can produce when sold, or it may be removed because it is not needed or going to be used for show, breeding or as a "pet".

Most goldfish are GREAT fish. Some are show fish, some have characteristics that one breeder may wish to introduce or carry in a line, some may not. Some may have flaws in conformation that would eliminate them from the show bench or from serious genetic contributions, but can make splendid "pets" for those who simply like fish and find them pretty for one reason or another.

I have fish that have mixed genetic backgrounds. I cull the fish that do not represent the characteristics I am seeking to perpetrate. The fish I cull are often considered "ideal" by others that are seeking THOSE particular genetic traits. Interestingly enough, they may "cull" a fish that I would consider valuable. Many fish are fine - big and healthy and strong and have lovely colors and finnage. They just are NOT what a breeder is needing - either because they already have numerous ones just like the fish or the fish does not carry what they want. The fish is sold as a pet or a showfish to someone else. It is a "cull" to the original breeder, it is a showfish or a pet fish or a breeder to someone else.

The word "cull" has come to be a rather derogatory term - used for a "useless" or "worthless" creature or thing. But that is an incomplete and fairly inaccurate defintion. On the farm, we "cull" baby bulls - they are sold as breeder bulls in many cases - bringing big money. But to a dairy farm - they are CULLS.

A "perfectly good fish" is a fish that gives pleasure to someone. To that particular person, the fish is perfectly good. To one that is looking for something "different", it is not. It is an individual judgement - for each person finds beauty and utility in different things, different fish.

JMO :)
Daryl, you have made a very good statement. So whatever goldfish we buy, we are buying culls! Is that correct?

[Daryl]

I guess you could consider them to be such...... they were a cull for SOMEONE - just not for you.

:youtellme:

[jinyu_fan]

Daryl, thank you for an elucidative explanation. Your voice on these forums is one that is much valued.

[bekko]

A smart breeder would keep the best of the best as future brood stock. So, in a sense, everything that is not kept by the breeder is a cull and everything you can buy is a cull. It's just that some culls are very valuable while others are garbage.

I agree that the word 'cull' has become derogatory when used as a noun. What's really weird is that in some goldfish circles 'cull' used as a verb has become socially unacceptable. This makes things interesting when you consider that making goldfish is all about culling. As a result, I no longer 'cull', I 'select'.

-steve

[HNLim]

A smart breeder would keep the best of the best as future brood stock. So, in a sense, everything that is not kept by the breeder is a cull and everything you can buy is a cull. It's just that some culls are very valuable while others are garbage.

I agree that the word 'cull' has become derogatory when used as a noun. What's really weird is that in some goldfish circles 'cull' used as a verb has become socially unacceptable. This makes things interesting when you consider that making goldfish is all about culling. As a result, I no longer 'cull', I 'select'.

-steve
Dr. Matsui once commented that the best goldfish breeders are the most ruthless cullers.

So if you select what you want, what do you call those you do not select?

Some times, the best breeding fish need not be the best fish. This I can tell from the many experiences I have breeding goldfish.

[bekko]

Mr. Lim, I agree that the best fish may not be the best breeders. But if you do not have the time and space to raise the offspring from many different pairings and keep records of which produce the highest percentage of good offspring, then you just have to pick seed which do not have faults. The frustrating part is that a pair which makes great offspring in one spawn may produce junk in the next spawn.

So if you select what you want, what do you call those you do not select? Don't have a name. They are just quietly dismissed from the audition.

-steve

[johnatoranchu]

I believe that "Best Fish for Breeding" and "Best Fish for Showing" are entirely different. Unfortunately most people in the UK often subscribe to the view that "it's not good enough to show but it's OK for breeding". I think this is totally wrong and explains the poor results many "breeders" experience. Whenever I cull, I look for fish with show potential AND fish which I earmark as potential breeders. The big difference as far as I am concerned is that a SHOW fish must have overall BALANCE but a breeding fish does not need balance, minor faults are acceptable but it MUST HAVE an abundance in one or more characteristics. By abundance I mean for example, an exceptionally well developed head on an Oranda, an exceptionally high dorsal on a Veiltail or an exceptionally thick peduncle and or an exceptionally large tail on a Ranchu. All these traits will throw the fish out of balance as far as the show bench is concerned but these would be the characteristics I would want in my seed fish.
John