Proper Fish Quarantine Procedures

[GoldfishAdmin]

This Article is contributed by Peter Ponzio and American Goldfish Association (http://americangoldfish.org/).
Proper Fish Quarantine Procedures by Peter Ponzio(AGA)


Most people who keep koi are familiar with aeromonas and KHV, and have instituted proper fish quarantine procedures to ensure the safety of their existing fish stocks and new purchases. Unfortunately, it took an outbreak of KHV for folks to begin practicing safe fish introduction procedures.

The goldfish hobby has not experienced an outbreak of KHV, but aeromonas continues to represent a potential threat to fish health. The same precautions that apply to the quarantine of koi should apply to goldfish, as well. Most knowledgeable sources recommend that new fish be isolated from existing stocks for a period of one month, at a minimum. This requires a separate fish holding tank(s), as well as separate biological filtration for the holding tank. Usually, it is not advisable to medicate new fish, although some folks prefer a dip in a salt solution, and small amounts of salt(approximately 2 – 3 parts per thousand) to be added to the holding tank. For a simple method to determine the proper dosing for a tank or pond, please visit the Midwest Pond and Koi Society website at www.mpks.org (http://www.mpks.org), and consult Bob Passovoy’s article, which explains the relationship between container size and pounds of salt to be added. If, after having the fish for awhile, disease symptoms occur, you should treat the fish with the appropriate medications. IN some instances, it might be advisable to contact a vet specializing in fish, to help with a diagnosis. I personally isolate my fish from 1 – 3 months, depending on the available room that I have at any given point in time, and the general health and appearance of the fish.

If you suspect that a fish that you purchased from a dealer has a disease, it is worth your while to contact the dealer to see if anyone else has reported a problem with their fish. The dealer may be aware of problems that other people are facing with their fish, and may be able to offer assistance. In some cases, dealers may be unaware of problems, and discussing your concern with your dealer in a calm, helpful fashion is always preferable to starting an argument. Fish can, and do, get sick despite the best efforts of the dealer to maintain a healthy environment while the fish is in their care.

Some people purchase fish from a dealer, and immediately enter them in a fish show. While this may produce immediate results in the form of a trophy, in most cases, it is harmful to the long-term health of the fish, especially if the dealer receives the fish from an overseas locations, and trans-ships them to the show site without an intervening “break-in” period. Unfortunately, this type of thing happens on a fairly regular basis, in most cases, because folks expect it from a breeder. If you’re really concerned about the long-term health of the fish, buy the first s few months before a show, and give it a chance to acclimate in its new environment before subjecting the fish to the stress of a fish show.
Since most shows occur in the summer or fall, the spring is an ideal time to purchase new fish at a spring trade show, allow the fish to acclimate, and then show the fish at one of the fish shows later in the year. This practice allows the fish owner to quarantine and acclimate the fish, and decide if the fish is ready for the rigors of a fish show.

Good quarantine procedures are good for the hobby, breeders, and fish enthusiast. They allow the fish to acclimate at their own rate, and improve the chances of fish not only surviving, but thriving in their new environment.

I recently had a conversation with Perter Ponzio from American Goldfish Association(AGA) and he gave me some articles for our web site. This is one of his article. Thanks Peter.

[bekko]

Aeromonas is ubiquitous and can probably be found in every tank, pond and fish at some level. A strong immune system lets the fish live comfortably in the presence of Aeromonas.

The quarantine tank is often an after-thought and provides second-rate accommodations. In reality, the quarantine tank should provide more space, better filtration and better management than the main tank.

-steve

[Daryl]

Good subject for discussion. I find it particularly distressing to see so many fish bought from overseas shipping and placed directly into a show - and occasionally, resold following the show/win. This does a great disservice to those who breed, or at least keep fish. It is also very hard on the fish - resulting in serious complications or death. But that is a different direction for this topic.

ALL fish should be qted - regardless of where they were obtained - even if it is from your very best friend. A qt tank/tub is one of the most valuable things any fish keeper can have. It may be broken down between new acquisitions, but it is a good idea to always keep extra media/filters running on "healthy" tanks for use in an unexpected qt situation. (even fishless - a "fed" tank with filter/media works, well, too)

I like to keep new fish in a clear tank - no substrate, no deco, no nothing. The tank should be well lit - so the fish can be observed from every angle. Other than clean, well-balanced water, a new fish generally needs nothing.... or ONLY needs something done if there is an observed need for treatment. Until there is an identifiable need - nothing should be done. All qted fish do not have a calendar date that they are released from qt.... they are kept in qt until at least 2 weeks beyond the point where ALL problems have been observed, treated and RESOLVED. Even past that time, if there is no need to move a fish, combine the fish with others or change housing, the fish remains in the original quarters. If a keeper does not have the facilities to qt new fish, they probably would do well to reconsider getting new fish.

I have seen so many fish that are bought at shows - beautifully groomed for the show tank - that survive approximately 2 weeks beyond a show. I get sad calls, wondering what was done wrong, how the fish could have been saved or why things went wrong. They die, for they were never properly acclimated to the new food, water, tank, care, etc. Quarantine is a period of time that allows a fish to settle into new digs - and to take care of problems with it's own immunity system - while it is not being stressed with shipping, showing or other matters.

[bluebelly]

I use a fish pathologist and have two aquatic veterinarians. You can find thru soil conservation dept. or extension services with a major college, help for serious medical problems . If a fish dies unexpectedly or a number start to die I have them posted usually the only cost is shipping. Why spend big bucks and loose a fish and then not know why or if something is contagious. That unfortunately is how I became the first documented and confirmed case of goldfish herpes viru in the states.. My vet and pathologist and I worked on that for one year before the first paper was published. I Iost a lot of fish then sacrificed hundreds more for research.

[Virginia ranchu]

I find that the properly quarantined fish are often the ones at risk when they are added to an established pond population. The fish already present in the pond seem to have immunity against whatever pathogens or parasites are already there. It's the healthy, yet immunologically naive "new guys" that often get sick.

Rob

[Corrie]

"Usually, it is not advisable to medicate new fish"

Why not?

I assume that every fish I get, has everything.

When you can start the fish on meds that are not necessarily harmful to the fish,
and give the fish some relief from shipping stress, why would you wait until the
fish is showing some symptoms.

[bodyboarder]

It seems not everyone follows the good advice!! Read my Blog here on the site regards my misadventure .. Lost most of my fish due to this, and improper hadling!!:badidea:
I tried my best but 24hrs after getting them they were dead..

I have imported several times before and all i usually add to the water is salt!! If signs appear then I treat after Vet advice. (I had this, and a good friend i have here Help me) but to know avail..

[nikond70s]

in my opinion. quarantine is not needed if you get your fish from a good realiable source. if the fish is sick then its sick. and your going to have to treat it. but why buy a sick fish right. thats why you buy healthy fish. and it helps if your tank is healthy. healthy tank equals healthy fish. i personally have never quarantine fish i just put them straight into the main tank. and never had a problem. i never test my water parameters either. i tell everything by how the water looks and smell. thats how i know if my water is good or bad.

but of course this is my opinion and how i do things. im sure most of you think im doing it wrong or what not. but i dont care. i been doing it for years and i do what works for me.

[bodyboarder]

in my opinion. quarantine is not needed if you get your fish from a good realiable source.
how do you know this when all you get from an importer are Lies??? I did not see a video of his installations until well after i had the problem!!
And putting fish you buy into your main tanks without quarantine is a game of russian roulette!! sorry i feel very strongly about this these days!!:youtellme:

Just read my Blog NIKOND70S, here on the forum..

[small_ranchu]

in my opinion. quarantine is not needed if you get your fish from a good realiable source. if the fish is sick then its sick. and your going to have to treat it. but why buy a sick fish right. thats why you buy healthy fish. and it helps if your tank is healthy. healthy tank equals healthy fish. i personally have never quarantine fish i just put them straight into the main tank. and never had a problem. i never test my water parameters either. i tell everything by how the water looks and smell. thats how i know if my water is good or bad.

but of course this is my opinion and how i do things. im sure most of you think im doing it wrong or what not. but i dont care. i been doing it for years and i do what works for me.

It's not a good practice. But I am not telling you to change your routine. But for whoever try to get an idea on quarantine, it is not a good way to follow.

[suphi]

how do you know this when all you get from an importer are Lies??? I did not see a video of his installations until well after i had the problem!!
And putting fish you buy into your main tanks without quarantine is a game of russian roulette!! sorry i feel very strongly about this these days!!:youtellme:

Just read my Blog NIKOND70S, here on the forum..


I just read your blog, wow, that was quite a terrible experience. This is not how business should be conducted, at least not in the US.

I believe in the quarantine concept. No matter how reliable the source is bad things do happen, hence we need to protect our investment. I do not quarantine for weeks like most would, however, I favor treating all new fish with antibiotics/antiparasitics (just as people taking vaccination or antibiotic prophylaxis when going to certain foreign countries.). Quarantine is helpful against diseases that are not yet apparent but are waiting to manifest (parasites in cyst stage, internal infections, etc.)

[TheTruth]

fish from oversees are run down,you should see how they are shipped ,they are so overcrowed its a wonder they live through the ordeal.ive been at wholesalers when the fish arrive some just float on the top of the water for a day.they will pick up any problem in the water.also if they are really top quality they are overbred and will only live a year or two.if i have to buy fish i try to get a breeding pair and try to get the babies.another problem is sometimes they outcross and you get crazy looking babies

[TheTruth]

to follow up on the breeding aspect you must keep 6 to 10 crazy looking babies and breed them into the parents the parents geans will start to line up,and you will get fish that look like the parents .keeping the parents alive is key.this takes patience but thats what goldfish keeping is all about

[TheTruth]

I find that the properly quarantined fish are often the ones at risk when they are added to an established pond population. The fish already present in the pond seem to have immunity against whatever pathogens or parasites are already there. It's the healthy, yet immunologically naive "new guys" that often get sick.

Rob

rob makes a good point.i have also seen the reverse over 30 yrs.you guarantine a fish .you put him in your tank and 2 wks later the fish you already have begin to die.for this reason i usually put the new fish with withfish i dont care to much about for several weeks and see what developes.i really hate to buy fish,especially now with all these bacteria problems

[bekko]

Quarantine new fish for life. When space is a problem, spawn them and then get rid of the imports.

-steve

[TheTruth]

steve makes a good point.2 yrs ago i bought a couple of fish for outcrossing my strain of ranchu .treated with everything and isolated for an entire winter i placed them in my pond in the spring.months later i started having bacteria problems and was loosing fish.i never had a bacteria problem like this.i tried many foods and medications and it seems the problem is under control but i believe its still in the water.it takes the fun out of fishkeeping to an extent.get the babies and get rid of the parents!

[TheTruth]

to follow up on the breeding aspect you must keep 6 to 10 crazy looking babies and breed them into the parents the parents geans will start to line up,and you will get fish that look like the parents .keeping the parents alive is key.this takes patience but thats what goldfish keeping is all about
every once in a while they have good fish ,yesterday i was in pet smart to buy dog food and saw nice ryukins ,high backs,deep red color,look healthy.usually they ship similar fish to their various outlets at the same time

[bluebelly]

Right now there is a lot of work being done on the transmission of viruses to the offspring. Vertical transmission means the female passes the virus into the egg. When this happens the fry will be infected at some point in time. If it is not vertical then the female is passing the virus on the egg which can be cleansed before the fry or egg becomes infected. Money is needed for further research for goldfish disease studies. Quarantine for as long as possible and dry egg hand spawning may be the safest!

[Cincy Ranchu]

With the exception of Dandy Orandas imported goldfish live generally less than two years. I was surprized to see the BBR's that we got in this year have such a high mortality and the Tosai during the same time period were just awlful in terms of mortality. I long for the day when there are more people like Rain Garden or amateur breeders to get rare fish from, this is financially impossible long term. You basically have to buy fish breed them and then buy so more if they do not breed. :badidea:

[suphi]

That's why I think all imported goldfish should be treated indiscriminately during QT. Sorry you had bad experiences with them.

[Ranchumaniax]

Gary,

Im sorry to hear that you lost all Tosai you bought from me early this year. After analyze your case base on all I heard and my knowledge, I believe your problem should coming either from me or your other fish. For the record, We both have many fish in stock and they are all coming from different places. And as you already know, all fish carry some bacteria or parasite. There is no 100% clean goldfish in the world. No matter what you do, once they start eating or pooping. The bacterias or parasite are starting to grow. Some parasite/bacteria are better of growing when the temperature are high, some better in colder water.

For your case, I think that the disease might already been at your place, but does not disturbing your fish. If my assumption is right, It will sound reasonable of those other people who have the same problem as you do. Since those people have both fish from me and from you.

As you know, different fish has different level of immunization. I suggest that you might want to send some of your own fish to lab for check out. I also will send some of my fish to the lab for checking.

Base on my understand of goldfish that I learned from Mr. Boss. Most of the case, a healthy cheapo goldfish last longer than a healthy high quality goldfish. This also include different type of goldfish, TVR Vs Azumanishiki or TVR Vs Comet. Such fish as TVR are extremely delicate to water quality and bacteria/parasite. Early this year, when I bred my TVR and Azumanishiki. I did lost around 50 BBR by Ich, while Azumanishiki(1 day younger) also have Ich, but I did not lose any! Azuma eating very well even they have so much white spot while TVR are all laying on the bottom, which I have to starve them and did more water change.

I, myself, not an expert on medicate my fish. This is a reason why I have to be very careful with source of fish. Boss has been qualified as Good Agricultural Practice(GAP) by Thailand Fisheries Department. Not many farm(All types; Shrimp, Aquarium pets, chicken, other animal) have been qualified. He also has been awarded third place of Best Thailand agricultural 2009. So, I believe, his place are in better shape and much organize than mine and many of us including all GOLDFISH IMPORTERS. So these problem shouldn't come from Boss Ranchu. Especially, his fish have been exporting worldwide where he doesn't have any feedback on this problem somewhere else except US.

Per my part, I do manage zoning of my fish. All fish Equipment have to be use separate and bleach at least once every other week. But sometime I did cross-contamination by using the same bowl/net for two different fish in the same zone, which sometime cause me some trouble, sometime doesn't. So no need to talk about fish in different zones. My zoning base on hardiest fish to delicate fish. New arrival fish to older fish. Healthy fish to sick fish. In breeding season, I have to make more room for Breeding zone. All these, I learned from Mr. Boss, since I called him almost every night.

As for Goldfish commercial world, Chinese goldfish are the most scariest fish comparing goldfish from Thailand or Japan. Many farm have been shut down by Chinese government such as Tung Hoi by KHV virus. So I would never ever put my Thai or Japanese fish with Chinese fish. Every time I got Chinese fish in. They will be far far away from my Thai or Japanese fish while in QT. Everybody know Chinese do more on quantity than quality. This is another reason where you can see some weird color that happen from in-breed, cross-breed or whatsoever. You also will see many bad quality fish at Jumbo size. Also, Chinese goldfish farm feed tubifex worms which are high bacteria content. And think about it, they can grow their fish to Jumbo. This telling me that their immune system are very strong.

Anyway, I hope this post will not burn our friendship. And I hope we will work together to find out the beginning of this problem and solve it. I am in this goldfish hobby for only 3-4 years while you been in the hobby for 10+ years. So I am here to learn from you. If we can find the cause, then we can solve and protect this to happen again in the future.

Warm Regard,
Paul

[Ranchumaniax]

You also will see many bad quality fish at Jumbo size. Also, Chinese goldfish farm feed tubifex worms which are high bacteria content. And think about it, they can grow their fish to Jumbo. This telling me that their immune system are very strong.



No matter how good/bad your skill on keeping goldfish. These fish will be quite hardy. However, once you go for some other fish coming from Japan or Thailand. These Chinese goldfish will live while you will lost Japanese or Thai Goldfish. You can try this!

[Cincy Ranchu]

Noce try Paul. But in reality you don't quaranteen long enough and many people have lost valuable Ranchu and Jikin from you. Uou must move to a tighter procedure to ensure your customers don't have these issues.
Rememebr, I have been keeping fish longer that you have been on this Earth and I'm a professional biologist by training. If you treated your fish like Ken Fisher we wouldn't be having these conversations.

[bluebelly]

Imports to this country should have paperwork declaring the fish free from certain viruses. If we can accept this then we are believing in certain importers for clean fish. When these fish are bought there still are a number of viruses, bacteria and parasites not tested for. I recommend keeping culls or purposely bred clean fish that you would put in with the imports. You would send these culls for testing to a lab or pathologist.
There are college universities and state extension offices that do this work, a lot of this is free. A lot of diseases have the same symptoms and sometimes it is confusing to properly identify In the past I have fallen victim to fish tb and goldfish herpes virus, a number of parasites and bacterial problems from over seas. The pathologist I work with has said he would test fish from an importer if I was buying from the importer. Maybe the importers would like to co- operate and do this voluntarily. I have recently made these arrangements for a national fish farm and it has helped keep thousands of fish alive, only in that the receiving distributor knew what the fish had and the proper medication to treat them. Just a suggestion. I know there are ways to cheat this but some importers could probably cut losses and sell more fish. A recent conversation with the dept of Ag and the agent said he would like to see foot baths at importers and distributors so the customers don't bring viruses and such to already clean fish.

[Ranchumaniax]

Noce try Paul. But in reality you don't quaranteen long enough and many people have lost valuable Ranchu and Jikin from you. Uou must move to a tighter procedure to ensure your customers don't have these issues.
Rememebr, I have been keeping fish longer that you have been on this Earth and I'm a professional biologist by training. If you treated your fish like Ken Fisher we wouldn't be having these conversations.

Gary

Did you QT your fish the same way as Ken? If you did, then you should not have any problem with fish you bought from me, right? To me, I think no matter where you buy the fish from. You must QT your new fish.

I can keep QT my fish for 2-3 month, but Im pretty sure we will have to same problem. Since the problem is not starting here.

Think about it;

Shipping from Thailand to xxxxxxxxxxxx = 43-45 hours.
Shipping from xxxxxxxxxxxx to customer overnight = 24-28 hours.
Shipping from xxxxxxxxxxxx to customer FedEx ground/Priority (2-3 days) = 48-72 hours.

Assuming that fish from Thailand have been cleaned, receive by xxxxxxxxxxxx. xxxxxxxxxxxx cleaned them and ship to customer. Customer do not Clean or QT the fish or QT not long enough. What going to happen?

Paul

[Ranchumaniax]

Some Example;

Suphi only have TVR that imported by xxxxxxxxxxxx.com. He sometimes have problem on his fish, but he always there to save them. He mentioned no dead fish in the past 2 year. Did he got lucky or he know what he is doing?

Fred do have bought some TVR imported by xxxxxxxxxxxx.com the first day of arrival. He also receive fish from other place. Fish from other place died and been giving away. TVR imported by xxxxxxxxxxxx.com are now suffering and dying. What is the cause? All this happen 6 month after the purchase. Fish should be very healthy for the pass 6 month, growing from 1" to now maybe 15cm.

A customer live close by to xxxxxxxxxxxx.com. Always buy some Jumbo HIgh quality(7-9" fish) and picking them up himself. It have been 2 years now and he has bought at least 20 fish. No dead fish, except 1 free fish. He always came in a day after arrival or a week later, where the fish are not in QT process yet. Did he got lucky?


If we believe that xxxxxxxxxxxx.com doesn't treat or QT fish long enough. I believe all the fish that were imported by xxxxxxxxxxxx.com will all be dead. And probably xxxxxxxxxxxx.com will be out of business by now. There are not many hardcore goldfish hobbyist around who will to spend this kind of price $250-$1,500. xxxxxxxxxxxx.com do more transaction with returning customer and hope to provide better fish at the best price. We must understand that sometime fish are struggle with shipping. I once read a post by Steve at Raingarden explaining how the Pure Oxygen react with ammonia produce by fish when they are in the bag per transporting/shippin.

Paul

[suphi]

In retrospect, I only QT my fish for a week. But they got treated for every imaginable thing except for virus during that period. I actually don't want Paul to QT my fish because I'd rather do it myself (no offense, Paul). Not that I'm advocating my way or anything, but just FYI...

Fish get sick/sicker during this time of the year since aeromonas/pseudomonas species (which are ubiquitous) tend to have an outbreak when temp starts to drop, kinda like flu season. Everyone should be careful and pay closer attention to their water quality. Don't leave sharp objects in tank if your water isn't clean because any nick in fish skin may lead to infection plus outbreak in tank. Then comes spring we will get to celebrate a virus season for fish, lol.

[Ranchumaniax]

Yes, P' Suphi,

I do not blame you not trusting me treating your fish. It always best to do them yourself. At least, you are very certain on what have been done to your fish. I could BS so many thing on QT the fish, but who'll know exactly what I really did to the fish.

Anyway, My point is to notice all goldfish hobbyist to QT your own fish no matter where you getting them from. Once your fish have been shipped, a full treatment for QT should be taken. And it is always better to QT couple fish than the whole imported shipment anyway!

Paul

[Ranchufan16]

[Anyway, My point is to notice all goldfish hobbyist to QT your own fish no matter where you getting them from. Once your fish have been shipped, a full treatment for QT should be taken.
Paul[/QUOTE]

I agree...QT no matter what, if you got them from a breeder, an importer or the Local Pet store, it's the only way to observe the fish and also improve the health and adjustment period to the new water, surroundings. I never used to until I learned the hard way with a fish htat I loved years ago. I swear by it now! BTW the chochokin I got from you paul is doing great!!!:yess:

[bekko]

I once read a post by Steve at Raingarden explaining how the Pure Oxygen react with ammonia produce by fish when they are in the bag per transporting/shippin. I know the post you are referring to, but you do not understand the chemical reactions I was referring to.

I have a lot to loose and quarantine imported fish for life. But, most people are not able to do that.

The stress of shipping and being moved can wreck a fish's immune system. It takes at least eight weeks of stable surroundings, warm temperature, pristine water, good nutrition and no disease for the immune system to reach full strength again. Stressing the fish again before it has fully recovered is asking for trouble. If you are going to mix fish from different sources, then at least wait until the fish has fully recovered from the shipping.

Your strongest fish will always be the ones you bred yourself.

-steve

[Ranchufan16]

[QUOTE=suphi;22468]In retrospect, I only QT my fish for a week. But they got treated for every imaginable thing except for virus during that period. I actually don't want Paul to QT my fish because I'd rather do it myself (no offense, Paul). Not that I'm advocating my way or anything, but just FYI...

Suphi, I know you have posted somewhere what you use when medicating, would you mind reminding me again what it is and brands that you use?:exact:
THanks!!!

[suphi]

[QUOTE=suphi;22468]In retrospect, I only QT my fish for a week. But they got treated for every imaginable thing except for virus during that period. I actually don't want Paul to QT my fish because I'd rather do it myself (no offense, Paul). Not that I'm advocating my way or anything, but just FYI...

Suphi, I know you have posted somewhere what you use when medicating, would you mind reminding me again what it is and brands that you use?:exact:
THanks!!!

I can't find that post so here it is again. I use Oxolium, Prazi Pro, and CopperSafe...only with new fish or sick fish, btw. The only one with potential danger is CopperSafe, but it's been safe enough for me. :youtellme:

[Cincy Ranchu]

I generally quaranteen all imported fish from anybody for six months. While Sulphi has successfully treated some of his fish, the number of fish he keeps is tiny.

The Jikin , BBR , and large Tosai were all isolated for their entire life. All of the large Tosai were lost even by Paul this summer, the BBR were lost by Dan and I as they came into maturity, the pathologist suugests that the stress of becoming sexually active brought out the A.hydrophla, Greg H. also had great Ranchu losses recently.

These really cool fish from Thailand need to be isolated, and fed an antibiotic feed for a period of at least two weeks as soon as they arrive and while they are being acclimated to US water they are need to be defluked and three to five days in oxilinic acid wouldn't hurt. Paul, obviously doesn't like this discussion, but if he is going to continue to act like a trans-shipper we collectively must come up with our own formulation for quaranteening the stock.

I have been keeping fish since 1964, and breeding goldfish since 1980, when I get a disease that I can't fix and decide to freeze all the stock at a loss of several thousand dollars, you other people on this page should listen up! I love this japanese stock but temeprate water fish coming from the tropics neeeds special care. Historically I have bought Ranchu from Carney which were from Thailand, I never had this issueand I did this for years, I should also note that the BBR from Paul (Itoh) in 2009 are now Nisai and doing well. My feeling is that the 2010 fish all had Aeromonas that is antibiotic resistant and is tough to get rid of, I had a similiar situation with Jo Ann in 1996 with A. salmoides. Lets hope 2011 brings cleaner fish.

Let me be clear, Paul's intentions are great, the fish are cool, the 2010 batches are really troublesome and need to be watched.
One last note; there are several species of Aeromonas, hydrophyla is generally and internal disease in which the fish float right side up, stop eating and die rapidly, salmoides(sp) typically has open sore ansd red mouths and holes in the flesh.

[TheTruth]

Imports to this country should have paperwork declaring the fish free from certain viruses. If we can accept this then we are believing in certain importers for clean fish. When these fish are bought there still are a number of viruses, bacteria and parasites not tested for. I recommend keeping culls or purposely bred clean fish that you would put in with the imports. You would send these culls for testing to a lab or pathologist.
There are college universities and state extension offices that do this work, a lot of this is free. A lot of diseases have the same symptoms and sometimes it is confusing to properly identify In the past I have fallen victim to fish tb and goldfish herpes virus, a number of parasites and bacterial problems from over seas. The pathologist I work with has said he would test fish from an importer if I was buying from the importer. Maybe the importers would like to co- operate and do this voluntarily. I have recently made these arrangements for a national fish farm and it has helped keep thousands of fish alive, only in that the receiving distributor knew what the fish had and the proper medication to treat them. Just a suggestion. I know there are ways to cheat this but some importers could probably cut losses and sell more fish. A recent conversation with the dept of Ag and the agent said he would like to see foot baths at importers and distributors so the customers don't bring viruses and such to already clean fish.
my gut tells me that we are not dealing with a bacteria problem.
that is secondary.i think we are dealing with an internal protozen.this evil import is causing multiple problems.lets solve it and the hell with the imports

[suphi]

John, what kind of Protozoa do you think it might be and how should one treat it?

[Virginia ranchu]

Here is a good overview of antibiotic treatments, and when to use them.

http://www.aquariumlife.net/articles/aquarium-care/104.asp

Cheers,

Rob

[Cincy Ranchu]

John, what kind of Protozoa do you think it might be and how should one treat it?

A fish farmer I know very well suggest Chilodinella or salt resistant Costia.

[TheTruth]

John, what kind of Protozoa do you think it might be and how should one treat it?
suphi im not versed in types of protozen.i took sports in college,never studied
my bad

[TheTruth]

A fish farmer I know very well suggest Chilodinella or salt resistant Costia.
gary what would be the treatment,is this a protozen?i dont think oxy works

[Cincy Ranchu]

Costia is Formaldehyde and Malachite green for a week

Chilodinella is tougher, it is only on live fish so many folks can never figure it out, Potassium Permangenate dip carefully with salt and salt in the tank. It takes weeks to get rid of it. look at the Johnson / Hess book, greta description

[bluebelly]

Goldfish Herpes Virus will strike during spawning because of stress and temperature is right. It is probably parasite weakens and virus finishes the job or vice versa. Had a pond where fish were fine till they spawned. Killed the pond with draining and then chemical and let it sit for 6 months. Probably more than one thing going on with the fish.

[aimeekat]

Wow I am now scared to death to ever buy a new fish. I have been getting my last new fish from ken which everyone seems to trust but before I read the post I just recently purchased fish from goldfish auction (tommy) and i know for a fact he just got back from overseas with them last week when i adked he was honest about that but stated that who he buys from does quarentine ( i know better then to trust secondhand information) but I don't have the resources a lot of you do at least I can't get them very quickly. I do have 2 10 gal quarantine tanks but that sounds like from some of these postings to be not enough. My tanks i hsve are not full yet (2- 55 gal and 40 gal) should I get another tank and never put these new fish with my babies. I am in this for the love of my pets and am very attached if you say never add them to my existing tanks I will trust and give them their own world asap but also live these fish I would like to gave them in my bedroom tank ( love to watch my fish as I gobro sleep and wake up had become a great cure for my insomnia). There have been so many ideas on how to treat them I am confused, I am about to order some stuff from fishfarmacy I was going to buy oxilinic acid (seen alot on keepers talk about needing to give) , Nitrofuracin green (recommended by ken fisher) and de-los (recommended by fishfarmacy for a scratching fish I have). I also own coppersafe (fishfarmacy pharmacist said that coppersafe is pretty much useless for most things fish get nowdays), quick cure and super ick cure. Does that sound ok or should I add something to order or change something. So sad to hear my fish probably won't live to be as old as i thought they would I have lost one fish mysteriously a few months ago and was heartbroken sounds like I'm in for a lot of heartbreak:(
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

[Ranchufan16]

aimeekat,
both of my imports, one from paul and one from ken were quarantined for 2 weeks in seperate tanks and now are with my other fish and are fine. My chochokin from paul is doing great and has been for about a month now and the calico ryukin has been in for a week and a half give or take and she is doing just fine as well. I would say that as long as you have taken the necessary precautions in medicating and treating for almost every known disease out there, you should be ok imo. I have read the other horror stories out there and I know that some people have had very bad luck with imports, but mine seem to be just fine. very healthy, very active and all around good fish. If they only last a couple of years then at least I got those couple of years of enjoyment out of them. My chochokin was bred at the social and I am going to pick up some of his fry this weekend, so he will live on through his young!

[Ranchufan16]

aimeekat,
also, these guys are here (cincy ranchu, the truth etc) they really know what they are talking about, if you ever have any questions about which medications and such to use, pick their brain, they are VERY knowledgable and have probably seen almost everything that is out there! Just b/c I have had decent luck with my imports does not make my two cents sound, it could be a luck of the draw for me!

[Ranchumaniax]

aimeekat,
both of my imports, one from paul and one from ken were quarantined for 2 weeks in seperate tanks and now are with my other fish and are fine. My chochokin from paul is doing great and has been for about a month now and the calico ryukin has been in for a week and a half give or take and she is doing just fine as well. I would say that as long as you have taken the necessary precautions in medicating and treating for almost every known disease out there, you should be ok imo. I have read the other horror stories out there and I know that some people have had very bad luck with imports, but mine seem to be just fine. very healthy, very active and all around good fish. If they only last a couple of years then at least I got those couple of years of enjoyment out of them. My chochokin was bred at the social and I am going to pick up some of his fry this weekend, so he will live on through his young!

Last time I talked to Dan that all my fish still alive and very lively. Less than a month later, I lost the whole tub! I and Fred agree that saying/comparing our fish still active and alive bring "Bad Luck". Now Fred is suffering....:exact:

Maybe just like in Koi world. You should point at the fish and said that is my Fav!
It's bring "Bad Luck".

Paul

[Ranchufan16]

Last time I talked to Dan that all my fish still alive and very lively. Less than a month later, I lost the whole tub! I and Fred agree that saying/comparing our fish still active and alive bring "Bad Luck". Now Fred is suffering....:exact:

Maybe just like in Koi world. You should point at the fish and said that is my Fav!
It's bring "Bad Luck".

Paul

well I am not going to lie about how my fish are doing...people ask I am going to tell them. last thing I want to do is saying something awful about the fish I got from you Paul, thought I was paying you a compliment. I guess the minute he goes south I'll be sure to post.......

[suphi]

Last time I talked to Dan that all my fish still alive and very lively. Less than a month later, I lost the whole tub! I and Fred agree that saying/comparing our fish still active and alive bring "Bad Luck". Now Fred is suffering....:exact:

Maybe just like in Koi world. You should point at the fish and said that is my Fav!
It's bring "Bad Luck".

Paul

Except that in Koi world, a "good"one costs as much as a new car. Now that's extreme bad luck. >:)

[suphi]

well I am not going to lie about how my fish are doing...people ask I am going to tell them. last thing I want to do is saying something awful about the fish I got from you Paul, thought I was paying you a compliment. I guess the minute he goes south I'll be sure to post.......

Do post if it happens, because the sooner you start treating sick fish the better the outcome will be. Timing is important and ignorance will usually lead to fish loss.

[Ranchufan16]

Do post if it happens, because the sooner you start treating sick fish the better the outcome will be. Timing is important and ignorance will usually lead to fish loss.

certainly suphi, thanks! I have learned the most about proper treatment from you and I appreciate that!

[sanggarra]

Except that in Koi world, a "good"one costs as much as a new car. Now that's extreme bad luck. >:)

That's funny in a dark way! :))

Imagine the fish died and you going to your wife saying " Dear... we just lost a new car...". I bet that goes well.

[aqua]

What I've noticed over the years is that there is no 100% fully assured disease-free quarantine procedure. It is still up to the goldfish body immune system to fightback. Having said that, it doesn't mean you should not quarantine, it's just that by doing so will reduce the likelihood and risk.