Anal Fins

[King_oF_Ranchu]

HI All,

Just curious about the way they judging fish with single or double anal fins. Since they're many experience hobbyist in this forum. I hope to learn new thing with good explanation.

I've read many forum saying about fish with single anal fin are disqualify from the show. However, in Japan and Thailand, fish with single anal fin are qualify for show. Even won a high rank in the show.

They're said that fish with single anal fin are not qualify as goldfish disorder, beside fish without anal fin or bended, as long as they can swim well. Single anal fin fish can be challenge with fish that has double anal fin in the show.

Anybody has any experience in goldfish show or judging? If so, why do they or do you disqualify single anal fin fish from the show? As i know, Anal fin are worth only 5 point out of 100 point in goldfish show. What's a big deal with it? I dont think it's sound reasonable enough to ban/disqualify them from the show! :youtellme:

[joe]

I totally agree with you King of Ranchu. However in the United States, our goldfish are judge from the side so more emphasis is placed on double anal fins. I think it is silly to disqualify many beautiful fish because of this trait but here in the States that is what we do. Additionally, I believe in Japan,Thailand, etc you also judge a fish by the way it swims, here in the States that does not appear to be as important

[ak47_chicago]

Hi Paul and Joe,

The story was that there were 2 perfect Ranchu in the show. Both of them scored the same totel of points. One of them with single anal fins and have 2 anal fin. So the JUDGE ended up pick the Champion to the one has 2 anal fins.

That is it.

[afertuna]

I am not sure how they are judged our koi and goldfish group talks about showing double anals and thats all i have ever shown for fancies

[Cincy Ranchu]

We should enlist John Parker in this discussion

[HNLim]

My personal view is that a double tail goldfish must have double anal fin. Not only double but must be even. I will never even consider keeping single anal fin goldfish. It is as good as saying that it is OK to have a single tail oranda or single tail ranchu.

In 2006 at one of the goldfish competition in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, there was several entries of single tail giant oranda being entered for the competition. Do you think these fish should win?

[bekko]

I think fish with single anal fins should, at least, receive consideration. Suppose a side view ranchu with a very nice back, tail and head, but single anal fin is entered. The only competition is a nasty ranchu with crooked back, poor tail tuck and two anal fins. Which should win?

It is very difficult to get a good tosakin with double anal fins. Of those few with good tails, only about 10% will have double anals. It is easy to get double anals in wakin - most will have them. In US shows, there is a catch-all category where everything except the common varieties (oranda, ryukin, ranchu, telescopes) are lumped together and compete against each other. So, you may have a tosakin with exquisite tail, perfect conformation and one anal fin competing against a run-of-the-mill wakin with two anal fins. There is no question which fish is more difficult to produce, more difficult to groom, more rare, and more pretty. Should the wakin win?

I agree that if two fish are comparable in every other way, the one with two anal fins should win. But, it is a mistake to immediately dismiss fish with single anal fins and not give them serious consideration.

-steve

[HNLim]

In one of the Singapore competition, the winner of the ranchu section was a ranchu with a split tail while all the top contenders had a jointed tail including mine which came in second and another which belongs to someone else which came in third. There were several people making remark that the second and third placing fish should have won. This was because the tail at the upper loop was not evenly placed. My view was that the winner deserve it.

I believe that in competition a fish should be as perfect as possible. Would it be ok for a ranchu with missing or single pelvic fins wins at the All Japan Ranchu Show?

Rules are made by man and sometimes the people who made them may have their own interest to take care. As for me I will never want to own a single anal fin goldfishfish including a wakin and tosakin.

[jinyu_fan]

I agree with HNLim that in competition, one must strictly adhere to established standards.

"I think fish with single anal fins should, at least, receive consideration. Suppose a side view ranchu with a very nice back, tail and head, but single anal fin is entered. The only competition is a nasty ranchu with crooked back, poor tail tuck and two anal fins. Which should win?" - In this case, neither fish should win. The one with the single anal fin should be disquaified for not meeting standards and the second one is a poor specimen of its breed. If a good specimen is not entered then the judge should declare that there will be no winner for that category.

On the AGA website, the standard for all double tail goldfish includes double anal fins.

I personally don't mind keeping a single anal fin fish for a pet (I have a pretty ryukin like that right now) but I certainly would not enter that fish in competition nor would I breed using such a fish.

[Sabine]

I personally don't mind keeping a single anal fin fish for a pet (I have a pretty ryukin like that right now) but I certainly would not enter that fish in competition nor would I breed using such a fish.

I agree - though the female ranchu in my avatar had a single, centered anal fin, yet all her offspring had perfect double anal fins :youtellme:

[Veil Gal]

A friend shared some of his veiltail fry with me last summer. Two of the fish I grew on have unusual anal fins. They are correctly paired, but instead of being normal full fins, they look like long spikes. This was not apparent when they were young (maybe due to my over 40 eyesight....) Anyway, has anyone ever seen this fault? I believe I should cull these fish. The parents did not have this fault.

[HNLim]

All fancy varieties of goldfish are "mutants". It is precisely for this reason that makes the goldfish keeping so interesting. Excellent specimens seldom exceed 1% of the brood.

I once bred two champion orandas together. The father a grand champion and the other second place oranda. Guess what? Not a single beautiful offspring. What I got were many many defective fries. In the end, I threw them all away.

The most beautiful fish may not be the best breeders, especially for the more established varieties. At least that is what I have experienced over the years. I love breeding orandas and I will never want to mate siblings together. I will always make it a point to seek a male oranda from the market/LFS. I will always ask the seller/importer the name of the breeder if possible. Your chances of producing more beautiful and stronger fish will be higher.

[Fishdork]

I think a single anal is a fault, but shouldn't be disqualified. The standard may say double anal fin, but it probably also says things like erect upright dorsal and tail as long as body. Many entrants won't have those charachteristics, but they won't be disqualified. If you start a new club show in Montana or Arkansas and only give prizes to fish that meet the show standard, then you can save money by re-using most of your prizes next year. I think the competition is for the best fish of each type entered. It's easy to imagine a poor quality fantail with double anal fins that has no value to us and a great ryukin with a single anal fin that is a much better fish.

Norm