Nankin....my new pride and Joy!

[harzan]

My new pride and joy! My Calico Nankin....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSiwqb7oMo

[johnatoranchu]

Harris, only a couple of days ago you said you were getting better but you're getting worse!!! Nankin - ugh! And to make it even worse, surely Nankin should be metallic! Please find a way of going to Gary's Social; we need to sit down and have a L O N G chat.
John

[marlin08]

Beautiful !!

[bigbettadan]

Did you get a pure metallic nankin spawn??

Dan

[harzan]

Harris, only a couple of days ago you said you were getting better but you're getting worse!!! Nankin - ugh! And to make it even worse, surely Nankin should be metallic! Please find a way of going to Gary's Social; we need to sit down and have a L O N G chat.
John


Yes, I am getting better. I am considering to just about quit this Ranchu thing. We need to get more varieties and color!:):):) Just about everyone is going Ranchu anyways. I think I will try one more buy into a new line or group...and see how it goes.

[marlin08]

Yes, I am getting better. I am considering to just about quit this Ranchu thing. We need to get more varieties and color!:):):) Just about everyone is going Ranchu anyways. I think I will try one more buy into a new line or group...and see how it goes.

...succumbing to the "bright side" !! Love it !! :woohoo:

(...wouldn't this board be a boring place without some diversity...?!)

[afertuna]

Yes, I am getting better. I am considering to just about quit this Ranchu thing. We need to get more varieties and color!:):):) Just about everyone is going Ranchu anyways. I think I will try one more buy into a new line or group...and see how it goes.

Ranchu's what are they????:confuse: I think I am one of the few here that dont keep them. BTW I love the Shukins i got from you.

[Cincy Ranchu]

Yes, I am getting better. I am considering to just about quit this Ranchu thing. We need to get more varieties and color!:):):) Just about everyone is going Ranchu anyways. I think I will try one more buy into a new line or group...and see how it goes.

But I do feel a swap coming on this fall

[judge]

Harris,

:worship:Thanks for sharing. Did you make these Calico Nankins out of Metallic and Calico cross? Is this the first generation?

You probably have the most variety here. Great Work! I love the varieties...

Thanks,
Judge

[bigbettadan]

I would like to see someone raise nankins here in the states in their traditional Japanese form( mostly white with red markings) before worrying about Calico and blue.......LOL

Dan

[johnatoranchu]

But I do feel a swap coming on this fall

Not you too, Gary! I've clearly failed in my efforts to pursuade you guys that breeding goldfish with definite aims and quality objectives in mind is more rewarding and enjoyable than buying and collecting every goldfish oddity that swims. Guess there is a huge and probably insurmountable difference between American goldfish enthusiasts and we Brits. Here most hobbyists take pride in breeding their own fish and then showing their results. I have yet to meet, or indeed even hear of, an American hobbyist who both breeds AND shows his/her own-bred goldfish on a regular basis. Hopefully TVR enthusiasts will buck this trend. You have all experienced the tightening of import controls on goldfish and other species of carp and this is likely to continue. Here in the UK, goldfish imports from Malaysia, Singapore, parts of China and (I think) Hong Kong are already banned and the list is likely to grow shortly. This trend will almost certainly continue in the States as your authorities become more and more concerned about viruses and protecting native fish stocks. What happens to the hobby in the States if, or more probably when, importation of goldfish is banned, period? It will be too late to start serious breeding programmes then! Guess the hobby will end. Am considering buying a few bantams next spring. Perhaps chickens are the way to go!
John

[bigbettadan]

Go with Fantail pigeons John....... There are good breeder in the UK(though the best are still in North America.... Plus I can help you...LOL They are great genetic challenge and to me are the "ranchu" of the bird world...

I have been pushing for breeders to work on developing their own bloodlines of ranchu for this reason. Their may come a time when we can't get imported fish......

I guess you can judge our F1s at the Social...

Dan

[afertuna]

Not you too, Gary! I've clearly failed in my efforts to pursuade you guys that breeding goldfish with definite aims and quality objectives in mind is more rewarding and enjoyable than buying and collecting every goldfish oddity that swims. Guess there is a huge and probably insurmountable difference between American goldfish enthusiasts and we Brits. Here most hobbyists take pride in breeding their own fish and then showing their results. I have yet to meet, or indeed even hear of, an American hobbyist who both breeds AND shows his/her own-bred goldfish on a regular basis. Hopefully TVR enthusiasts will buck this trend. You have all experienced the tightening of import controls on goldfish and other species of carp and this is likely to continue. Here in the UK, goldfish imports from Malaysia, Singapore, parts of China and (I think) Hong Kong are already banned and the list is likely to grow shortly. This trend will almost certainly continue in the States as your authorities become more and more concerned about viruses and protecting native fish stocks. What happens to the hobby in the States if, or more probably when, importation of goldfish is banned, period? It will be too late to start serious breeding programmes then! Guess the hobby will end. Am considering buying a few bantams next spring. Perhaps chickens are the way to go!
John

John there are several of us that do indeed show the fish we breed. I have for the last 5 years shown my fish and I have done well. Valerie Burtson is another here in the NW that has done very well with her Bristols that she has breed for years.Bruce and Lari breed very nice fish that do well and will do well. There are different types of breeders here in the states that feel that the show circut isnt what the like or want. With the spred of diseases and the fact MANY shows people will buy a fish at the show and enter it after they check out the quality that was already entered and win. Since the Champion could just be bought why even try........ I have to admit that my fish cant beat alot of the imported I have to say I love every award I win regardless including the third places..LOL.I actually brought 75 fish last year to my show and I will bring around 50 this time. After some of my issues that arrived after I got some Japanese fish I think I will only get domestic fish from this point out. I also agree that the borders will be closed and there are alot of breeders that are getting ready for it. This is why its nice that there are so many of us that have the unique breeds now so when the borders are closed we can still get them. I am starting to narrow down my focus in the breeds I have and I have enjoyed having the many types over the last few years it has allowed me to see which I like the most. P.S. I have NEVER seen a TVR in real life and I will see them this Sept.
Allen

[afertuna]

Oh and btw Bantams are nice I have Cochins and silkies!!! You should also look at Mandarin ducks they are alot of fun!!!

[harzan]

Not you too, Gary! I've clearly failed in my efforts to pursuade you guys that breeding goldfish with definite aims and quality objectives in mind is more rewarding and enjoyable than buying and collecting every goldfish oddity that swims. Guess there is a huge and probably insurmountable difference between American goldfish enthusiasts and we Brits. Here most hobbyists take pride in breeding their own fish and then showing their results. I have yet to meet, or indeed even hear of, an American hobbyist who both breeds AND shows his/her own-bred goldfish on a regular basis.

Uncle John,

You are too funny. I agree the regs will tighten,but you do know you have about the most varieties that anyone here raises right???

Google nankin goldfish some time. There is a pretty big following these days. I think you will have them in you fish house much sooner than you think:):):)

I anticipate some denial from you as you have indicated a slight dislike of the Nankin...people change, even Brits...??? I think.:)

[Cincy Ranchu]

Not you too, Gary! I've clearly failed in my efforts to pursuade you guys that breeding goldfish with definite aims and quality objectives in mind is more rewarding and enjoyable than buying and collecting every goldfish oddity that swims. Guess there is a huge and probably insurmountable difference between American goldfish enthusiasts and we Brits. Here most hobbyists take pride in breeding their own fish and then showing their results. I have yet to meet, or indeed even hear of, an American hobbyist who both breeds AND shows his/her own-bred goldfish on a regular basis. Hopefully TVR enthusiasts will buck this trend. You have all experienced the tightening of import controls on goldfish and other species of carp and this is likely to continue. Here in the UK, goldfish imports from Malaysia, Singapore, parts of China and (I think) Hong Kong are already banned and the list is likely to grow shortly. This trend will almost certainly continue in the States as your authorities become more and more concerned about viruses and protecting native fish stocks. What happens to the hobby in the States if, or more probably when, importation of goldfish is banned, period? It will be too late to start serious breeding programmes then! Guess the hobby will end. Am considering buying a few bantams next spring. Perhaps chickens are the way to go!
John

You will be happy to hear that my midnights are going to BLUEBELLY, thus one less variety. Now I am down to TVR, veils&BT,Broadtail teli, Bristols, Jikn, and Azuma's. I traded off my Ryukin and now my midnights, and sadly my Hamanashikis from Tedstrer failed to make it through the heat wave ( very sad).
John this is fairly close to your grouping ?

[johnatoranchu]

EXCELLENT news, Gary - and all REAL varieties too. Keep it up. You don't really need calico Nankin (or proper Nankin if it comes to that) do you?
By the way Gary (and Steve (Bekko) if you read this), I'm having trouble with your email providers. My emails and more importantly the GSGB Bulletins keep bouncing back. Did you eventually receive the May Bulletin? I think I sent it to you both 4 times. July Bulletin has been bounced back too.
John

[Ranchu Rancher]

John: I only breed two types of goldfish SVR which I know you are not so fond of, and as soon as they are big enough I will start breeding TVR. Yes I have gone to the dark side>:). I agree with you that trying to breed to many types of fish is fruitless and we need to strengthen our lines because there will come a day when there will be no more imports.This was my first year entering fish in a show and I brought F1's placed second in two categories. Most of the fish that took home the top prizes were purchased at the show. We have talked about this before on this site. We need to look at changing the guidelines for entering fish in shows or at least have two different categories. This is also why I brought up the idea of a goldfish only show. I think at such a show it would be easier to have two separate groups for showing, one being a breeders group.John the point was raised by Allen that you also breed a lot of different fish. For the record old chap how many do you breed.:NO:


Gregg

[johnatoranchu]

John: I only breed two types of goldfish SVR which I know you are not so fond of, and as soon as they are big enough I will start breeding TVR. Yes I have gone to the dark side>:). I agree with you that trying to breed to many types of fish is fruitless and we need to strengthen our lines because there will come a day when there will be no more imports.This was my first year entering fish in a show and I brought F1's placed second in two categories. Most of the fish that took home the top prizes were purchased at the show. We have talked about this before on this site. We need to look at changing the guidelines for entering fish in shows or at least have two different categories. This is also why I brought up the idea of a goldfish only show. I think at such a show it would be easier to have two separate groups for showing, one being a breeders group.John the point was raised by Allen that you also breed a lot of different fish. For the record old chap how many do you breed.:NO:
GREGG

Hey, Greg. I'm a Brit. It's a case as "do as I say", not "do as I do"!!!!!! Seriously, I breed ONE line of Ranchu - Jinchu Kai (TVR, red and white). They have KNOWN lineage as I'm lucky enough to buy direct from the breeder, Nogi san, my Sensai since 1989. I return to him every three to five years to obtain "linebred outcrosses". Ideal arrangement and I am fully aware that few hobbyists outside Japan have such opportunity. Even better, I work this line in conjuction with my "Ranchu Buddy", Andrew James so if something goes wrong I can always beg, borrow or steal from him. Andrew is totally dedicated and has Jinchu Kai Ranchu only. He is a better breeder than I am but he's nowhere near as handsome. Jinchu Kai Ranchu are at the heart of my hobby and interest and if/when they do not breed well, I consider the season to be a disaster regardless of how successful my other varieties might have been. Continuing my "Japanese interest", I breed Jikin and Tosakin, again both are from pedigree stocks obtained direct from breeders in Japan. I have two lines of Jikin, one purchased with the help of my Sensai and the other "gifted" to me by Jinchu Kai (Japan). I have two lines of Tosakin, again both are from recognised Japanese lineage and obtained direct from the breeders. One line was "gifted" to me by Jinchu Kai (Japan) and the other was "gifted" to me by Andrew James; he having purchased the original seed stock direct from a well known Japanese breeder. Both the Jikin and the Tosakin are red and white metallic - you will find no "calico pets" here!!!!! And then to my "English" varieties. I have a line of broadtail metallic Orandas going back several generations and I'm in the process of re-establishing a line of broadtail calico Orandas but the calicos are proving to be very challenging. I have excellent hoods, excellent finnage and excellent colour - BUT NEVER ON THE SAME FISH!!!!.... Just culled 2000 fry and found just 6 with divided tails and one of those was metallic! I guess there's always next year. Then I have metallic and calico Veiltails. The metallics I have been taking very seriously and have bred some very useful babies this year. This line was invigourated in 2002 with "Philladelphia Veiltail" outcrosses obtained from Al Foster at Gary's Breeders' Social in 2001 - that was beforethe days of prohibition (importing/exporting goldfish that is). The calicos I do not take seriously and only breed them as and when - I have not bred from them this year. Also in the same "breed as and when" category are my Bristol Shubunkins. I do not take them seriously enough so they seldom win on the show bench but they form the "backbone" of the "experimental" side of my hobby. I have succeeded in transferring the mock metallic gene into black Broadtail Moors and calico Pearlscales and I'm trying to produce my "own" singletail - "the IMPERIAL", into which I am incorporating both mock metallic and bluebelly genes. Getting there slowly - just need to live to be a hundred (at least)! So as you can see, I'm a mix between the "traditional" and the "revolutionary" but you can thank Dave Mandley for the latter. My Brit friends used to think I was nuts; I guess that now they know!
I totally agree with your assessment of the American show scene. Here we have classes for breeders' teams of 4 fish and breeders' single entries, whilst at the GSGB's London show every variety has at least 3 classes - open, breeders' teams and breeders' singles. To be eligible for "Breeders' Classes" the fish have to have been bred by the exhibitor in the current calander year. We used to have awards for "Best in Show" (your Gand Champion) and Best Owner Bred but the latter was discontinued when we realised that on virtually every occasion both awards were won by the same fish.
John

[TheTruth]

My new pride and joy! My Calico Nankin....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCSiwqb7oMo

no body has this strain,i hope you breed them,i can give you tips on color if you want.they look young and healthy.new fish always wind up with somethingso isolate and treat for sometime good luck

[afertuna]

Hey, Greg. I'm a Brit. It's a case as "do as I say", not "do as I do"!!!!!! Seriously, I breed ONE line of Ranchu - Jinchu Kai (TVR, red and white). They have KNOWN lineage as I'm lucky enough to buy direct from the breeder, Nogi san, my Sensai since 1989. I return to him every three to five years to obtain "linebred outcrosses". Ideal arrangement and I am fully aware that few hobbyists outside Japan have such opportunity. Even better, I work this line in conjuction with my "Ranchu Buddy", Andrew James so if something goes wrong I can always beg, borrow or steal from him. Andrew is totally dedicated and has Jinchu Kai Ranchu only. He is a better breeder than I am but he's nowhere near as handsome. Jinchu Kai Ranchu are at the heart of my hobby and interest and if/when they do not breed well, I consider the season to be a disaster regardless of how successful my other varieties might have been. Continuing my "Japanese interest", I breed Jikin and Tosakin, again both are from pedigree stocks obtained direct from breeders in Japan. I have two lines of Jikin, one purchased with the help of my Sensai and the other "gifted" to me by Jinchu Kai (Japan). I have two lines of Tosakin, again both are from recognised Japanese lineage and obtained direct from the breeders. One line was "gifted" to me by Jinchu Kai (Japan) and the other was "gifted" to me by Andrew James; he having purchased the original seed stock direct from a well known Japanese breeder. Both the Jikin and the Tosakin are red and white metallic - you will find no "calico pets" here!!!!! And then to my "English" varieties. I have a line of broadtail metallic Orandas going back several generations and I'm in the process of re-establishing a line of broadtail calico Orandas but the calicos are proving to be very challenging. I have excellent hoods, excellent finnage and excellent colour - BUT NEVER ON THE SAME FISH!!!!.... Just culled 2000 fry and found just 6 with divided tails and one of those was metallic! I guess there's always next year. Then I have metallic and calico Veiltails. The metallics I have been taking very seriously and have bred some very useful babies this year. This line was invigourated in 2002 with "Philladelphia Veiltail" outcrosses obtained from Al Foster at Gary's Breeders' Social in 2001 - that was beforethe days of prohibition (importing/exporting goldfish that is). The calicos I do not take seriously and only breed them as and when - I have not bred from them this year. Also in the same "breed as and when" category are my Bristol Shubunkins. I do not take them seriously enough so they seldom win on the show bench but they form the "backbone" of the "experimental" side of my hobby. I have succeeded in transferring the mock metallic gene into black Broadtail Moors and calico Pearlscales and I'm trying to produce my "own" singletail - "the IMPERIAL", into which I am incorporating both mock metallic and bluebelly genes. Getting there slowly - just need to live to be a hundred (at least)! So as you can see, I'm a mix between the "traditional" and the "revolutionary" but you can thank Dave Mandley for the latter. My Brit friends used to think I was nuts; I guess that now they know!
I totally agree with your assessment of the American show scene. Here we have classes for breeders' teams of 4 fish and breeders' single entries, whilst at the GSGB's London show every variety has at least 3 classes - open, breeders' teams and breeders' singles. To be eligible for "Breeders' Classes" the fish have to have been bred by the exhibitor in the current calander year. We used to have awards for "Best in Show" (your Gand Champion) and Best Owner Bred but the latter was discontinued when we realised that on virtually every occasion both awards were won by the same fish.
John

John,
I appreciate the fact you are a traditionalist when it comes to the fish. Iknow there is a Very large difference between the Us and the Uk in shows and fish breeding.This comes from years of breeding and larger groups of them in a smaller area. I think there should be classes in shows for bred by exhibitor as they do there in the UK. I think that will only happen in Goldfish only shows its just not something I can see local koi and goldfish shows doing. I have like Gary found myself narrowing my goldfish lines down. Most of which you would call Real Goldfish LOL. I do think that there are places for the nankins and Bep in the goldfish world too and I applaud those of us that are keeping the breeds going. I cnat wait to meet you in person this september I have many questions for you. BTW I am glad to see that Mr Mandley has set you in a great direction!!!!
Allen

[bigbettadan]

Please someone work on a traditional Japanese r/w metallic Nankin...... Please....LOL

Dan

[Ranchu Rancher]

I'm with Dan on this one. I stare for hours at the Izumo Nankin on YouTube. John thanks for sharing what your breeding.


Gregg

[TheTruth]

John,
I appreciate the fact you are a traditionalist when it comes to the fish. Iknow there is a Very large difference between the Us and the Uk in shows and fish breeding.This comes from years of breeding and larger groups of them in a smaller area. I think there should be classes in shows for bred by exhibitor as they do there in the UK. I think that will only happen in Goldfish only shows its just not something I can see local koi and goldfish shows doing. I have like Gary found myself narrowing my goldfish lines down. Most of which you would call Real Goldfish LOL. I do think that there are places for the nankins and Bep in the goldfish world too and I applaud those of us that are keeping the breeds going. I cnat wait to meet you in person this september I have many questions for you. BTW I am glad to see that Mr Mandley has set you in a great direction!!!!
Allen
glad to here you guys are cutting back john h

[harzan]

Calicoes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utt14ezY0Fk


Metallics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k43CJ5Q9jZ0&feature=related

I guess I will try to keep these going until I am all grey haired and can say I had line bed these fish with outcross to line bred fish for 50 years....:)

[cheeky ran]

wow very nice calico nankin, first ever.

harris, you will be in history soon. father of calico nankin:worship:

[kendal]

Please someone work on a traditional Japanese r/w metallic Nankin...... Please....LOL

Dan

send me some and i will;)

i love nankin. looked and contacted everone i cold think of looking for some a few years back. i gave up and got some ranchu instead. someday.

[Romewhip]

I've been bit hard by the nankin bug, I've started a pond build specifically for nankin. If anyone comes across a source please share, they are the only other fish I'm looking to keep besides my beloved ryukins.

[harzan]

wow very nice calico nankin, first ever.

harris, you will be in history soon. father of calico nankin:worship:



I hate to take the credit....I got them all from John when I visited him in London!:):):)

[johnatoranchu]

I hate to take the credit....I got them all from John when I visited him in London!:):):)

This is below the belt Harris but I guess it's time you got your own back! Seriously, if you're up for a visit sometime just let me know.
John

[bigbettadan]

Hey, were those metallic nankins pure or with edo blood??

Dan

[Cincy Ranchu]

Dan and I would love some of these sometime, I have to say they are quite nice....

[Fishman43]

Dan and I would love some of these sometime, I have to say they are quite nice....

Make that Dan squared, I want some as well!

Dan

[kendal]

i'll take John's share.

[harzan]

Thanks guys, I am glad some people like them here.:)