Paul's Seeds 2011

[Ranchumaniax]

Hi All,

I am very exciting to receive my new seeds next week.
There are TVR and Tosakins from Japan.

Here are pictures of my Male from Mr. Fukami

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Breeding2011/FU10001M.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Breeding2011/FU10002M.jpg

[Ranchumaniax]

Going to try my best to breed these Tosakin.....
More seeds pic/video are coming soon.....Im very exciting!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qa91fS9Q98
8Qa91fS9Q98

[Cincy Ranchu]

Are you importing BBR in 2011?

[Ranchufan16]

Going to try my best to breed these Tosakin.....
More seeds pic/video are coming soon.....Im very exciting!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qa91fS9Q98
8Qa91fS9Q98

do you have these tosakins already? this is a breed i do want to get my hands on...you breed i'll buy thats for sure!

[Ranchumaniax]

Gary,

It will be "Pre-order" only for BBR from Boss.
I'll make announcement once I have heard anything from Mr. Boss regarding BBR.

On Tosakin, They are coming in next week.
I am expecting new shipment from Mr. Boss next week. New York Time! :yess:
If you like these Tosakin from Japan, you can e-mail me....

Paul

[bigbettadan]

Make sure you spawn those tosakins before you sell them....

Dan

[suphi]

Those Tosa are likely as expensive as ranchu. They're so nice.

[suphi]

What the ideal water volume for grooming tosakins? They probably don't need as much space or food compared to ranchu.

[Cincy Ranchu]

Andrew on this page has been raising them for many years, he is the site expert I believe, you should contacy him or John Parker. Perhaps you could get them to give us some lessons:exact:

[Ranchumaniax]

Dan,

I hope and will try my best to breed them. It was a hard decision between getting lower grade Tosakin from Japan or these. My final decision is get high quality then breed them. Since the market of Tosakin are not wide enough. Plus, most of Tosakin's lovers can afford high price and get top quality. Breeding them and selling off-spring are for those who want to own/try them with lower budget.

Suphi,

These tosakin are quite expensive, but still a big gab of price compare to Ranchu. All tosakin equal almost 1 ranchu, but 1 or 2 of ranchu Im getting cost more......

The grooming are pretty much close to ranchu, but less in feeding. However, still need make sure they get enough food to growth. Water depth would be same or little higher comparing to ranchu. This Tosakin got dorsal fin, and as far as I know. Higher water depth will not hurt for fish with dorsal fin. The only thing I am concern would be the fragile tails. I am worry that I will damage it. Hopefully, I will have to start learning how to use bowl to get them out from the water during water change.

Gary,

I haven't see John or Andrew tosakin. I would love to see their work. At this point, I still have to ask Mr. Boss. Hopefully John and Andrew will share info on this forum on keeping/raising/grooming Tosakin. I believe there is no info on Tosakin on this forum yet!

Alls,

Beside those 6 Tosakin in the video, I am getting 2 more.
Any takers on this Authetic Japanese Tosakin?

Paul

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think that you are going have to raise in bowls if you want the tail to be correct. Generally one fish per bowl, change water daily, kinda like Bettas

[East Ozeki Ranchu]

As many of you know, I do not keep Tosakin any longer - instead my focus is 100% on Ranchu. But, from 1997 through to 2007 I bred them every year taking on average 5 spawnings from two bloodlines.

Naturally, everyone focuses on the tail of the Tosakin and this is its most beautiful aspect - but, the head (which should be sharp and pointed) is the most difficult in my experience.

Some other thoughts:

A seed Male with a double Anal fin was always paired with a female with a single Anal fin and when my Seed Tosakin arrived from Japan their fins were like this.

A lot of poor information is to be found in "Western" goldfish books suggesting that they must be handspwned - this is rubbish. All, of my Tosakin spawned naturally and were very vigourous.

A longer bodied fish will carry its tail better in later life than a short bodied one.

For certain, you should not feed bloodworm. Tubifex should be fed instead.

As Tosai, through to the Autumn they should be kept in bowls. After that ponds are fine.

Culling correctly is key - the ones that look like they have true Tosakin tails in early life should be culled - they will be poor swimmers and will not develop well.

The value of Tosakin is not as high as for Ranchu in Japan. In the west however rairity and mistique adds to their value.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Andrew

[Romewhip]

Dan,

Alls,

Beside those 6 Tosakin in the video, I am getting 2 more.
Any takers on this Authetic Japanese Tosakin?

Paul

For those of us on small budgets the opportunity to raise and groom quality baby tosakin would very exciting.

[Ranchumaniax]

Thank you Andrew for you input.

You are right about their head. I hear that most of the time, you would probably look at their head than tail to make selection. Since tosakin are like wine, where they take so much time to develop their tail. And most Tosakin avaiable on the market are 2-3 years the most which their tail are not fully develop yet.

The technique I heard about develop pointy head was rotating tub by using 2 different size. But with bowl, they using bowl in the winter to help with movement of their tail. However, if we do not put them to sleep. Do we still need bowl?

Paul

[suphi]

Paul, what you're doing is a good business strategy. Import the highest quality breeders and sell offsprings to keepers at more affordable prices. At present you're the only one in a position to do this. It'll make quality fish more readily available and affordable (to me, lol)--and it'll also help you in the long run. I'd take 500 customers that buy $100 fish over 5-10 customers that buy $1000 fish any day.

[fastrails]

I 2nd that!

Paul, what you're doing is a good business strategy. Import the highest quality breeders and sell offsprings to keepers at more affordable prices. At present you're the only one in a position to do this. It'll make quality fish more readily available and affordable (to me, lol)--and it'll also help you in the long run. I'd take 500 customers that buy $100 fish over 5-10 customers that buy $1000 fish any day.

[Ranchufan16]

[QUOTE=xxxxxxxxxxxx;25823]breeding them and selling off-spring are for those who want to own/try them with lower budget.

or for those of us who have never had them before and would rather try on a cheaper offspring than pay 250 or more for a fish we might accidentally kill.....:exact:

[Ranchumaniax]

Yes, that what I mean. But if you can keep TVR alive.
Then you should be ok with Tosakin. These 2 breed are pretty much same level of difficulty.

Paul

[kendal]

my success with tosakin is limited, but i have spent a great deal of time corresponding with other who have had more success. i can say that andrews advice is in line with everything else i have been taught.

i would also add that tosakin are very hardy fish. there is a rumor that they are not very vigorous—not true. the ones i have kept were very aggressive feeders and spawners and wintered under ice easier than ranchu. they also are active in far colder water than ranchu.

some explanation of some of andrews points:

bloodworms or high protien power feeding will ruin the head and give them little wens. it also grows the body faster than the tail and often leads to bodies that are too deep and SBD. best kept on lower protein and smaller feeding. some all but starve the fish thinking that it retards the body growth in relation to tail—a little extreme for me. i just feed low protein food and veggies.

deep water does not work well to develop tails. traditional bowls are shallow and slope up on all sides. if you observe a tosakin in such a bowl they are nose up in a surface feeding posture with the tail splayed. this swimming position helps open the tail and hardens it in that position.

large surface and/or deep water allow the fish to swim too much and collapses and softens the tail.

tail set and angle are important even though hard to see from above. tail angle causes the back flipping tosakin are notorious for. longer bodied fish don'e have this problem as much.

my mistake was to cull for perfect tails as BB which usually go bad by way of the fish twisting its tail to swim as it grows.

tosakin are hard to groom, but easy to keep. not the sissies people think they are.

Paul, i want some fry when they are available. thanks for bringing them in.

[Ranchumaniax]

Paul, i want some fry when they are available. thanks for bringing them in.

Let's see if I can get them spawn or not. It might be easy for me to spawn them. Since Mr. Boss already push them to spawn. Once they arrive here, Temp and water are different. They should be spawn! Last update with Mr. Boss, He said that males are start to chase and push the female now. Wish me Luck!!!

This is a sarrasa line. So they might not be as good as the dark olive green line. Not sure what they call that line, but there are 3 different line in Tosakin. Dark Olive Green color, Red, and Sarrasa. Sarrasa, basically, the newest line that developed about 70 years ago. Japanese norms focus on fancy red and white color. So the seeds im getting, definitely will give me Red & White color. And To me, personally, as long as they have "Tosa" tail with fancy R/W color. I am happy! :exact:

Paul

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think they will spawn in mops the first few days you get them. My experience suggests that the males are quite aggressive

[kendal]

mine were red and white but would throw a few olive and a some solid white ir solid red. the green fish tend to have bigger tails.

[goldenswimmers]

The culling sounds difficult as it sounds the true tail forms over time...what would be key aspects to look for in a tail that will form in the future...any secret!!???...I too have the love for the tosakin!!!! Would hikari wheat-germ be better feed for these guys?

[Ranchumaniax]

And Here is my Female that I will use as my seed.

Female from Mr. Kawai from Kurashiki, Okayama, Japan

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Breeding2011/KW10009F.jpg

[Ranchumaniax]

:yess::yess::yess:

Jap Wife meet Jap HusbandS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5itRbxqn4
tD5itRbxqn4

[Ranchufan16]

[ And To me, personally, as long as they have "Tosa" tail with fancy R/W color. I am happy! :exact:

Paul[/QUOTE]

Hey Paul, whats the success rate with these? (breeding wise) like out of 1000 eggs how many will actually have the tosa tail? i've heard it is quite low and that's what aides in the higher price from lack of good and well formed fry. Is this true? your thoughts are appreciated!

[Ranchumaniax]

It is all depend on the seed. I do not think it is low percentage as far as I see Mr. Boss bred them in 2009. However, he use the oldest line of Tosakin in his breeding program, the brown one.

These are out from 1 spawn. Over half already sold.
These in the video are the remaining....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=segfySVKr_M
segfySVKr_M

[Ranchufan16]

the depth looks even more shallow than TVR, what does he keep them at?

[suphi]

:yess::yess::yess:

Jap Wife meet Jap HusbandS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5itRbxqn4
tD5itRbxqn4

Amazing fish, Paul, in every way body/tail/wen. Make sure you get them to spawn.

[Ranchumaniax]

the depth looks even more shallow than TVR, what does he keep them at?

He did water change...that why water were very low....

[Ranchumaniax]

Amazing fish, Paul, in every way body/tail/wen. Make sure you get them to spawn.

I'll try my best. I would love to breed my female with the male you bought from me. The one that retail for $1,200

Paul

[Ranchufan16]

He did water change...that why water were very low....

gotcha. Thanks Paul! I knew they needed to be in shallow water but that seemed a bit too low. Makes sense! Can't wait to see these guys from you!

[Ranchumaniax]

For the past week, I almost lost these seed from Japan. They are quite difficult to adjust. And with my mistake of feeding them on 2nd days of arrival. It's make thing worse!

Now they are back and start working(Chasing) for me.
Thanks for the Jap medication! Wheew....that was close! #:-S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epxv1e7Irug
Epxv1e7Irug

[bigbettadan]

Did you use yellow powder???

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Yes, I did use yellow powder. Also, I mixed it with Jap Green Powder(Tropical Gold), PARAZAN-D, and salt. Work very good for this Jap fish!

This recipe of medication seem to work very well on sick or even dying fish. I was told these medication are soft to the fish, but active to infection. They are kind of antibiotic med for us.

Paul

[suphi]

This confirms my belief that expensive imports should be treated aggressively for everything. I'm glad they're doing well now, hoping to see offsprings from them.