Beyond cycling

[fishes2catch]

Has anyone noticed that there is a maturation that takes place beyond the initial cycling of a water system? I have noticed this mostly in salt systems where despite having a new system cycled where there is no detectable ammonia, nitrite and nitrates the animals do not do well until the systems has matured.

I have talked with other aquarist about this and they have seen similar results and have attributed this maturation as ecosystem establishment. This makes sense but what is it? Bacterial, fungal and/or animal? Maybe all of the above and probably system dependent (a pond would have a much different mature ecosystem then a indoor 55 gallon tank).

Maybe I'm making hay out of nothing but has anyone observed this in their systems? Any thoughts?

[rcarltonj]

My experience is that this is absolutely true. I can't give you any technical info on the subject, just anecdotal evidence. My 75G tanks take about 8 months to a year to mature. By that I mean the algae changes from brown to green and the water becomes crystal clear. Before that time the water tests OK, but it just doesn't seem polished.

[rcarltonj]

I'm also starting to think that this maturity can be affected by water changes. Too many water changes slows the maturing process but too few changes adversly affects the fish.

[fishes2catch]

There is not a lot of literature or discussion about this topic. I'm tending to think that it is bacterial (beyond nitrifying). There is a growing body of research that looks at the microbiota of zebrafish guts and how it is important in the development of a functional gut. Sterile zebrafish do not develop properly.

In a talk recently the presenter reported the counts of microbes growing in and on humans as 10 to the eighth number of cells compared to 10 to the seventh human cells. It is unclear as to what role these microbes play as it is a burgeoning field of research.

I'm sure that there is large amounts of bacteria in and around the fish some of which are beneficial for their health and seem to take awhile to establish.

[fishes2catch]

Not really about goldfish but does relate a little to this thread...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/science/21gut.html?ref=science

The stuff that we are discovering about human(animal)-microbe interaction is IMO amazing. There is research coming out that finds evidence that microbes are involved in the development of zebrafish neurons.

Mark

[jenglish]

I believe in a sterile set up it is primarily bacteria. When you start adding other critters it may get more complicated. In my reef tank I have a great variety of "lower" life forms that I watch the populations explode and then reach equilibrium as a tank matures. These are the visible critters. I typically see diatoms and algae explode in a young tank and then die back as conditions become less favorable for them. The real issue is without a good microscope and a lot of time on your hands it is hard to say what all is going on in a tank population wise. :)