From 29 To 90 Gallon Upgrade!!

[waterfaller1]

I have been working on hubby for over a year to agree to take down our reef tank, and turn the tank into a fw tank. Today we finally agreed it would be much easier on the bank account to do so. So my 2 goldfish in the 29, will have a huge upgrade to a 90.:yess: Now I need help designing a plan that will work, with minimal changes. The lights can all come down. They are 2X250 MH & 4 X 110 VHO's. I have lots of lighting options, that's not the issue. The issue is hubby wants to keep it with the sump as filtration. I know I have seen this done before, where you make a biofilter in a sump using scrubbies, or bioballs, or similar. There are three 840 GPH pumps on the tank. One is the return from the sump, and two are on a closed loop. I am thinking the one return from the sump should be enough? The action of the water going down the overflow, will also aerate the water. Am I missing anything? Do you think this will work?
I am so excited for them to have enough room to grow up like they should.

[joe]

I have a simliar set up on my two hundred gallon goldfish tank. one sump in the middle with two returns. bioballs in the sump lead down to a trickle filter underneath the tank. you would be surprised how much of the salt water world of fish keeping can be applied to goldfish. Just make sure your external pump is not moving too much water around. I know that with those coral reef systems it is very important to have strong circulation through the system

[waterfaller1]

Thanks for your reply Joe. I found the info I was looking for on the discus forum. Instead of a trickle filter, which usually uses bioballs, scrubbies, etc...I will be using ceramic media, which can be submerged 100%. The media will be housed in either mesh laundry bags, or a basket. Much easier than a wet dry or trickle application. The water will flow over the overflow, through filter socks, pass by the media basket, through the bulkhead{sump is a 29 gal} to the external Blueline pump, and back to the tank. The pump is I believe about 840 GPH, that and the action of the water over the overflow, and tip the return up so it drops a bit into the tank, should be sufficient filtration and aeration.
here are a couple pics of the idea
These pics are of my reef tank during the build, before we moved into our home
The pumps you see are the closed loop pumps. They won't be needed. But basically the same type of pump{a Blueline} is now sitting just the other side of the bulkhead in that open space.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1145.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1143.jpg

prepping the stand hubby built
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1127.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1137.jpg

[waterfaller1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1119.jpg
finished tank
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/Picture1160.jpg

Here are a couple pics of the plan to use a basket for the media. Net bags can also be used.
The water flows through the filter socks, you just replace these every few days with a clean one, and rotate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/DSC_2315.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/DSC_2329.jpg
*these photos belong to jcardona1

[waterfaller1]

Here is another application, using the laundry mesh bags to hold the media.
This was a lot of media, because it was a 90 gal sump on a 400 gal tank
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/waterfaller1/fish/DSC07396.jpg
* photo belongs to jcardona1

[Ichthius]

You can submerge bioballs. I have hundreds of gallons of bioballs and they are all submerged. They'll be easier to clean than bags of ceramics.

[DigitalRyukin]

That's awesome. Very excited to see your whole setup.
Hoping to see that beautiful oranda groom into a much more fat/big one.

[opera]

You can submerge bioballs. I have hundreds of gallons of bioballs and they are all submerged. They'll be easier to clean than bags of ceramics.

David, I heard that submerge bioballs is less effective, is it true?

[opera]

I meant submerged bioballs is less effective than non submerged bioballs. Is it true?

[joe]

I use the larger bio balls with various grooves and ridges on them. It is my opinion that these creates a larger surface area for beneficial bacteria to form then ceramic rings. Additionally, all of my bio balls though come in contact with water are not fully submerged. It is also my understanding that this process of the water slowly trickling over these materials aids with stabilizing of water conditions and creates a more stable environment for bacteria to colonize. I rarely have any problems with my water, ph remains stable at all times, and I use no carbon materials at all.

[Redcap]

The idea of the media not being submerged is that it will receive more oxygen in the open air and promote more bacteria.

[opera]

The idea of the media not being submerged is that it will receive more oxygen in the open air and promote more bacteria.

Now my bioballs are in open air. Do you mean promote the bacteria growth on the bioballs? or on the tank/water?
For my setup, I think the bioball does not get wet all the time, so it will shift from one group bioballs to the other groups of bioballs, due the the nature of water over flow. The groups of bioballs, may be stayed wet for 25%~50%. Would the bacteria still growth even biaoballs are open in the air for 75% of the time?

[fishes2catch]

I use the larger bio balls with various grooves and ridges on them. It is my opinion that these creates a larger surface area for beneficial bacteria to form then ceramic rings. Additionally, all of my bio balls though come in contact with water are not fully submerged. It is also my understanding that this process of the water slowly trickling over these materials aids with stabilizing of water conditions and creates a more stable environment for bacteria to colonize. I rarely have any problems with my water, ph remains stable at all times, and I use no carbon materials at all.
Is your water hard? I would think that it is in Miami. If so and if you aren't using an RO unit to make up your water then there is your carbon source.

[Redcap]

The nitrifying bacteria is on the bio-balls. They will work submerged, but the idea of a wet/dry system is that the media, in this case bio-balls have water running over them, but they are high enough to be mostly the water level of the sump. It's the same concept as the bio-wheels used on Marineland filters where the media that is building up the bacteria is constantly wet, but exposed to the air where the oxygen makes the bacteria grow better. If the media dries out, the bacteria will die. The wather provides the food for the bacteria.

[Ichthius]

The reasons trickling are to saturated oxygen and to keep the autotrophic bacteria in thin bio films.

If you are stocking the system to the limits of the biomedia yes you should trickle but if you're surface skimming and the water is falling the height ofthe tank and stand the water will be saturated so oxygen isn't an issue.

If you don't clean the the bioballs and the system is heavily stocked, mulm will build up in the media and reduce its efficiency as the thick heterotrophic bacteria smother and replace the thin film autotrophs that we want. Dont overstock and remove the mulm from the sump and media regularly.

The same issue will effect ceramic media, bioballs are just easier to use.

[waterfaller1]

This tank will have just the two goldies, and my one other small fish in that tank to start. I have currently a 2217, and a 2215 Eheim running with Ehfisubstrat, and substrate pro. I also have another 2215 full, and more that is in bags. I plan to use all of this media in mesh bags. It will be plenty of biological media for these fish, in a tank volume over 3X what they have now.

[opera]

The reasons trickling are to saturated oxygen and to keep the autotrophic bacteria in thin bio films.

If you are stocking the system to the limits of the biomedia yes you should trickle but if you're surface skimming and the water is falling the height ofthe tank and stand the water will be saturated so oxygen isn't an issue.

If you don't clean the the bioballs and the system is heavily stocked, mulm will build up in the media and reduce its efficiency as the thick heterotrophic bacteria smother and replace the thin film autotrophs that we want. Dont overstock and remove the mulm from the sump and media regularly.

The same issue will effect ceramic media, bioballs are just easier to use.


What is the best way to remove the mulm? Just rinse with old pond water? or I can just use the tap water? When I clean my bioballs weekly, I noticed a lot of mulm and a lot of kind of dirty bubles. I used tap water. Should I use old pond water so I did not kill the good bacteria?

[waterfaller1]

Rinse with pond water or use dechlorinated tapwater.{or chloramines if you have them-I use Prime} Untreated tapwater will kill the good bacteria.

[Ichthius]

Is your water hard? I would think that it is in Miami. If so and if you aren't using an RO unit to make up your water then there is your carbon source.

Bicarbonates and carbonates are the carbon source for the autotrophs but the mass of it that cloggs things up is from fish solid waste that heterotrophs eat.