Breeding blue calico

[Guenther]

Dear goldfish friends, here are some images how i did it.

The male is a special selected male.
You can only select fish with his attributes if the male is 2 or better 3 years old.

Male:
http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=4415


The female is almost completely matt
Female:
http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=3804

The shown offspring are selected for blue, different blacks with different melanin and good shape
Offspring:
http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=5394
http://www.shubunkin.de/images/black.jpg

[Guenther]

More Offspring:

http://www.shubunkin.de/images/schoko.jpg
http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=5395

Hope you enjoy
Guenther

http://www.shubunkin.de

[small_ranchu]

Hi Guenther,
Welcome to GoldfishKeepers Society. You did a very impressive job on breeding especially on color of offspring and hope you can share your experience us. See you around.

[Jed]

I tend to agree. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of the offspring in months to come. Also, welcome to Goldfish Keepers. :)

[Ajno]

Wow I love the blue in those fish. Keep up the good work!

[demdamdemekins]

Very nice! Do you intend to breed more black into these fish?

[Ichthius]

Well done. It's a very nice cross.

The Sakura looks like a male. In a couple pictures it almost appears to have breeding stars?

Were all the offspring blue or are these select fish?

You show one metallic fish, did you get any mattes?

It seems like the yellow (from the male I assume) knocked out all the red of the female.

[Guenther]

Well done. It's a very nice cross.

The Sakura looks like a male. In a couple pictures it almost appears to have breeding stars?

Were all the offspring blue or are these select fish?

You show one metallic fish, did you get any mattes?

It seems like the yellow (from the male I assume) knocked out all the red of the female.

Oh, I'm sorry, I linked to the wrong fish!:worship:
Today, I edited the url and now you can see the female I was breeding with.
The male and female are siblings too!

Some other siblings from the shown parents you can see at

http://www.shubunkin.de/jungfische07.html

Guenther

[joe]

Are you planning on line breeding them i.e. breeding the siblings back to the father and mother fish should result in a higher precentage of calicos with blue. Anyway, you did a great job and your fish are lovely

[Guenther]

You show one metallic fish, did you get any mattes?


I think that would not be possible?

[Guenther]

Are you planning on line breeding them i.e. breeding the siblings back to the father and mother fish should result in a higher precentage of calicos with blue. Anyway, you did a great job and your fish are lovely

For now, I put my breeding efforts on hold because I travel too much betweeen Germany and Canada.
Should I start again, I would love to breed blue calico wakin or "canakin" wakin.
I'm still searching for high quality wakin!

[Guenther]

2 more pictures of blue goldfish. This ryukin were bred in 2005

http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=4159

http://www.shubunkin.de/upload/bild.asp?id=3783

[Ichthius]

I think that would not be possible?

Hi Guenther

If the female was completely matte as the first "female" appeared to be there would be no metallics as the cross and the stock would be completely heterozygous ie all the fish would have been calicos.

Just as a fish can almost be completely matte the metallic male could have also be almost completely metallic. If the two fish crossed were at either end of the bell curve phenotypically but were both heterozygous the result would be 25% metallics 50% calicos and 25% mattes.

Thanks for your pictures! It's great to have interesting genetics to discuss.

Do you have any new projects you are thinking of crossing?

[Guenther]

Hi David

Tnx for your answer.


If the female was completely matte as the first "female" appeared to be there would be no metallics as the cross and the stock would be completely heterozygous ie all the fish would have been calicos.


Yes, I think the same. The female, I wrote, was almost matt.
So, there were no matt offspring in crossing with this metallic male.


Just as a fish can almost be completely matte the metallic male could have also be almost completely metallic.


A metallic is completely metallic, if not, it is a calico by definition

Do you have any new projects you are thinking of crossing?

Not at the moment

[afnaveils]

Great blue!! Great job Guenther!!

Gerard

[fishes2catch]

Hi David

Tnx for your answer.



Yes, I think the same. The female, I wrote, was almost matt.
So, there were no matt offspring in crossing with this metallic male.



A metallic is completely metallic, if not, it is a calico by definition



Not at the moment

So, I'm new to this so please forgive any ignorance. Is it safe to assume that these fish are tetraploid? If so, does a complete metallic mean that the metallic gene is in a homozygous state AAAA? Also, deriving from the conversation above, is a matt genetically homozygous for the mutant allele aaaa and the calico can be either Aaaa, AAaa, aaaA? Do these different combinations account for the different amounts of metallic? I have a hard time thinking about tetraploidy as my brain has been trained to think in a diploid way.

These are really nice fish!
Cheers,
Mark

[bekko]

Some think goldfish are going through a diploidization process as many genes behave as though they are diploid. Joseph Smartt discussed some of the mechanisms of goldfish diploidization in his books.

But, yes, metallic is homozygous, matt is homozygous and calico is heterozygous.

-steve