Food options for baby fish

[suphi]

I'm getting some baby TVRs soon from "you know who". With relatively no experience with TVR or baby fish, I'd like to start this topic to see what people are doing with their baby fish.

I've read in some Thai forum that live daphnia is optimal for baby tvr that still hasn't changed color. Blood worms or pellets can be tough for them to digest at this stage and may cause digestive problems, according to an expert there.

My current plan below (I have no access to live food):

BBR (black baby ranchu) - Hikari freeze dried daphnia
CBR (color baby ranchu) - freeze dried or frozen bloodworm, saki hikari pellets, and maybe tiny spirulina granules

Then there's an issue of how much, how often, etc.

What do you think? What have you guys been doing with your baby fish?

[Cincy Ranchu]

I'm getting some baby TVRs soon from "you know who". With relatively no experience with TVR or baby fish, I'd like to start this topic to see what people are doing with their baby fish.

I've read in some Thai forum that live daphnia is optimal for baby tvr that still hasn't changed color. Blood worms or pellets can be tough for them to digest at this stage and may cause digestive problems, according to an expert there.

My current plan below (I have no access to live food):

BBR (black baby ranchu) - Hikari freeze dried daphnia
CBR (color baby ranchu) - freeze dried or frozen bloodworm, saki hikari pellets, and maybe tiny spirulina granules

Then there's an issue of how much, how often, etc.

What do you think? What have you guys been doing with your baby fish?

These fish are going to be used to small live stuff and have never seen anything frozen. I would be best to start with live baby brine shrimp and then to move to frozen adul brine shrimp and maybe frozen blood worms. It is most critical to feed small amouts many times a day vs one big chunk. The size of the frozen fish food fed per feeding is equal to the size of each fishes head. Some items you should remember;


These guys are used to 75F to 80F temperatures.
They probably have never been in water over 12" deep and if you want the futan to grow correctly they must be in shallow water.
If raised in the classical Japanese method, the food should be placed on a white plate, not just chucked in the tank.( I am a chunker, Parker is a plater)
If you are going to feed pellets, go slow, I would suggest either 500um pelltes that are microencapsulated or perhaps the Spectrum 0.35 mm pellets. Remember pellets must be sinking. Hikari micro pellets might work well for a small number of fish.
Optimum gallonage at this age is about 5 gallons per fish.
Change water (50%) every two days.


On a good year I do about 10,000 Ranchu fry and perhaps 2,000 BBR like Paul is shipping. These fish have been culled at least twice. The clunkers went away about week two and these represent fish of commercial quailty or fish from a 3 rd or 4th spawning. We should expect no mercedes tails or ribbed tails but there may be fish that are not yet completely devided. These fish should swim and not do summersaults or have bent spines. The preview pictures were pretty great with the exception of one mercedes (tee) tail.

One last note, it is of most importance to retain the names of the breeders, otherwise you have commercial grade fish ( a mut). If Paul kept tract of the people buying these this page could form a KAI:exact::youtellme:

[bigbettadan]

Everything Gary said....LOL On a side note, I have used hikari micro pellets with 3 to 4 week old bettas(much smaller then goldfish) with great success. I do like Hikari frozen daphina much better than freeze dried........ Of course BBS are always a staple..... and easy to hatch.

Dan

[suphi]

That's a lot of good info, Gary. I have a 40G shallow coffee table tank that's just right for these guys. Interesting idea about serving food on a white plate, that's doable also.

[suphi]

For just 5 tiny TVR that I'm planning to buy, I dunno if it's worth hatching BBS for them.

[thomasn]

how about frozen BBS


http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20060412181004/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/larger/lg_13016_FS20353D.jpg

[suphi]

Frozen BBS or other food is also an option. Maybe I can steal some frozen stuff from Paul when I pick up my fish, lol.>:)

[Cincy Ranchu]

It is only worth it if you want the best fish in the US. No pain no gain when it comes to Ranchu, other wise grow one of another 50 varieties that don't require headgrowth and perfect mpeduncle. People fail to realize that Ranchu are more difficult than all of the other varieites to get perfection.

[bigbettadan]

Thats the attractive part Gary..... LOL That sounds like the speech I give on producing HM bettas........

Dan

[Virginia ranchu]

Hi Suphi,

You commented:

BBR (black baby ranchu) - Hikari freeze dried daphnia
CBR (color baby ranchu) - freeze dried or frozen bloodworm, saki hikari pellets, and maybe tiny spirulina granules

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, and I hope I'm not just wrong, but I believe that BBR are just very young ranch that have not demelanized yet. I know that there has been some confusion as these are not "Black Ranchu". Baby ranchu will demelanize at different rates, so at the same age, you will have some appear orange, and others will still be bronze. I bring this up, because I'm not sure if you are making a distinction between the size/age of the fish, or the color.

I have tried freeze dried daphnia, and the fish didn't go for it. You can make a simple brine shrimp hatchery from two soda bottles and a desk lamp. I can post a picture of mine if you are interested.

As simple as it sounds, I think a good quality flake food (I use Tetra Goldfish flake) is well-tolerated by young ranchu, and is an easy to use format. I have had problems with pellets and granular fry foods. The fry gorge themselves and then they die. I swear by frozen Hikari blood worms. I don't like the freeze dried foods; they are oily and create a slick on the water. As the fry get a bit larger, I add a homemade gel food that really boosts growth.

If you don't live in a heavily populated area, you might be able to culture some mosquito larvae or daphnia in a tub outside. Or better yet, raise the fry in a tub outside, and let them gorge on mosquito larvae all day.

Best of luck with your fry,

Rob

[Cincy Ranchu]

I think we should start a contest for the best results, say pictures monthly from April 1 to the end of the year. Winner gets a article in the AGA or the English equivalent. It could be really a fun thing!:exact::youtellme::exact:

[suphi]

The contest sounds like a neat idea. I could learn a lot from the process. Let's do the monthly pics at least, maybe keeping a blog or a thread on this.

Rob, I'd love to keep my fish outdoor but it's just too cold right now with temp fluctuating between 20-50's. I do have some flakes at home.

[flaringshutter]

Just a quick note here. I've been feeding my fry Mazuri Aquatic Omnivore as a staple. I put in a big chunk every other evening and they nibble at it all day. I've seen their growth really begin to speed up since they have access to food for the entire day.

[suphi]

I've been using freeze dried bloodworm and frozen brine shrimp on my BBR since I got them. So far so good. I dunno if it was my imagination but my Itoh-Kudo BBR already look bigger compared to a couple days ago.

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Finally, My Frozen Bloodworm just arrive on Wednesday! Now the Raising and Grooming Process begin!

All fish are getting bigger! Most of Sugiura are in process of coloring. I do feed all BBTVR with Frozen Bloodworm only 3 times a day! Eating time 5-10 mins. Water change everyday at night.

Updating Picture of these TVR sound great to me!

Just to give a head-up on Food for these TVR. im planning to get some pellet food with my up-coming shipment. These Highest pellet foods are specially design for Ranchu, called "ChanKo". If anyone interesting, please give me a word! I wont be getting much of this cause they're pricey! Actually these product available by request.

More Info;

http://bossranchu.com/Fishfood.html

Suphi, I might need your help on translate this pages. I think you can give a better explanation than me.

[King_oF_Ranchu]

And also thinking to get these Vitamin liquid for ranchu, called " Goldawick".
Some Breeder in Japan use this product for their stock like Mr. Kashino.

More info;

http://www.petsfanatics.com/forum/t-introduction_of_the_goldawick_vitamin-2065-1.html

[suphi]

Paul, I'll take one Koreyori Sanyaku. Can't go wrong with 63% protein diet.

[thomasn]

And also thinking to get these Vitamin liquid for ranchu, called " Goldawick".
Some Breeder in Japan use this product for their stock like Mr. Kashino.

More info;

http://www.petsfanatics.com/forum/t-introduction_of_the_goldawick_vitamin-2065-1.html


I've used goldawick before, not long enough to make up my mind about it. I got a small bottle from my LFS but haven't seen it there for a while. It's hard to come by; I've emailed the distributor but he was vague about when/if I could get more and told me to keep checking the website.

[Ranchumaniax]

Goldawick are product of Thailand. I have talked to the guy who discovered and own its recipe. I could definitely get couple of bottle for my fish. If someone like to try it, let's me know. So i can order more! This is another expensive accessories for high-end goldfish.

[thomasn]

how much?..

[suphi]

Some initial thoughts on feeding BBR.

I think that bloodworms might be a bit too tough for them to digest as smaller BBR became less active right after feed, some wouldn't move around at all until the following day or after. The larger BBR seemed to be ok.

I have since switched to feeding daphnia (freeze dried) exclusively and the fish seem to do better. I think I'm gonna stick with daphnia and flakes for now. When they're a bit bigger I'll reintroduce bloodworms.

[suphi]

Been going through tons of ranchu articles on a Thai webboard (extreamranchu), I learned a lot today.

It appears the recommended food for BBR is daphnia. BBR are fed from morning to noon, then the fish got a break for 4 hours, then fed from 4 pm until 10 pm. That's some insane amount of feeding. They also recommend only 6 inches of water level for ranchu less than 6 months old for optimal development.

When BBR becomes CBR, bloodworms and pellets are fed (including high protein and color enhancing diet). They also feed often during this stage.

Because of work, I can't feed like that in the morning but at night I can do this. Time to get started.