My tiny TVR and more

[suphi]

The 4 smaller ones are Sugiura (one of the fathers is worth $11k), the larger 3 are Itoh-Kudo (born earlier).

The heater is massive compared to their size.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3345228078_1b0bf4cd34_o.jpg


Seven babies.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3345228014_76d225c146_o.jpg



More. The top one is already changing colors.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3304/3345227978_8fb7dbdcfb_o.jpg


Some are already showing Funtan (wen at the corner of the mouth).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3345227916_a8b5092c1a_o.jpg

[suphi]

And a nice 6-inch male SVR, now in quarantine tank. I have to say that it was a pleasure to finally meet Paul and his family in person, and to do biz with him.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/3344391987_288652174a_o.jpg

[Ranchumaniax]

In couple month, we'll see who has a better thumb on raising TVR! :)

I shipped out several order of BBTVR, and most are member on this forum.
Hope to see more pictures of your TVR in full-stage of baby color!

Paul

P.S. I really missed that Male! I havent had a chance to appreciate him :youtellme:!

[bigbettadan]

Those look pretty nice!

I have a 55 gallon shallow tub with plants ready to go.... And my secret food..... LOL

Dan

[suphi]

Ok, let's compete! I have no secret food or plan, but I'll come up with something good...maybe.

Paul, lemme appreciate that SVR for you then...lol, you have a nicer one in your collection anyway.

[Cincy Ranchu]

The heads are very nice, I believe in the second photo the fish second form the right has a poor right shoulder (lead fin ray).

Nice futan, it will be nice to see if that fish is a male ( in12 months)

[Bucks Koi]

The heads are very nice, I believe in the second photo the fish second form the right has a poor right shoulder (lead fin ray).

Nice futan, it will be nice to see if that fish is a male ( in12 months)

Cincy
Can you please take the picture and fish ( copy/past) what you are talking about and circle or point out what you are seeing.
I just turned 46 so eyes need a little help.
Patrick

[suphi]

I'm so tempted to feed em tonight (the BBR). They're still swimming around actively this late at night, trying to eat my sponge filter...

[ak47_chicago]

Hi suphi,

May I please to see the some sideview pictures of both size for the 6 inches svr. The one with Jadeseal?

Thank you.

[suphi]

Ok, I had to put him in my main tank to take some quick snapshots. He's still a under QT so he's now back in the QT tank. He's kinda skinny by Paul's standard, but just right for me.:)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3346897847_fb2b1579ca_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3442/3346897921_0a3fd993ae_o.jpg


*My aquarium lighting is yellowish, the real red/orange on the fish is a bit more intense than seen in these photos.

[Jed]

Suphi, I love that ranchu! I was checking this post last night and was going to request more photos of your SVR.

[suphi]

Jed, he's the nicest SVR I've had so far and I'm really glad that Paul sold this guy to me. There's actually another large male that is as nice but I already went over my budget with this guy and the seven TVR. He's going nuts in the QT tank, though. It's probably too small for him (10G), he's causing splashes very often wanting to get out of there. It might be a short QT for this one.

I don't have any more space other than the 40G that is housing my TVR, but he'll probably eat my baby TVR if I put him there.

[Jed]

I cannot imagine him in a 10 gallon tank. I bet he's dying to get out of there! I have one QT tank and it's a 29 gallon.

[Ajno]

You migh have to go get a rubbermaid tote for that big guy. Very nice! Sounds like you had a great trip.

[suphi]

If he's not better then I might have to do rubbermaid.

People who got baby TVR from Paul, please feel free to post their pictures. One of my Suigiura is almost all yellow now with white belly, another one is starting to change color at the tail fin. Surprisingly, the Itoh-Kudo strains which are larger still show no signs of color change.

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Yes, it's also happen to my stock. Most of Sugiura bloodline are in process of changing their color, but not on ItohXKudo. Any good looking mark on any of those BBTVR you got from me? i'll wait for an update on them in couple day! During this time, they'll change a lot!

[bigbettadan]

All 8 of the Itohs you sent me all are showing color change.......

Dan

[suphi]

Sugiura, very little blackness left.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3585/3352433188_242f05c0de_o.jpg


Another view of the same one.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3662/3351607831_bbb3323ca7_o.jpg


A different Sugiura, the tail fin is starting to change.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/3352433214_143c10b820_o.jpg


Two Itoh-Kudo to the left, they eat more and are more active than my Sugi.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3427/3351607873_1be6cd9bc6_o.jpg

[suphi]

Bad news first. Lost 1 Sugiura a few days ago, so down to 6 total.

Now the good news. The rest of the fish are very active now making it difficult to take photos as they swim around constantly. I've been feeding them with Hikari FD daphnia almost exclusively.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3603/3366102045_51b84d88ec.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3368267901_db5743fb5f.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3368267953_2ac0071d9e.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3369093318_c482d4bae4.jpg

[bigbettadan]

That bigger Itoh has a powerful caudal peduncle..........

Dan

[suphi]

All of my Itoh currently have bigger wen and caudal peduncle, compared to the Sugi. They're better at swimming also. We'll see if the Sugi can catch up in a month.

[bigbettadan]

Yes my itohs are great swimmers with wide peduncles. The have colored to mostly red, but there is a white with red head. I am just thrilled to death with them..........

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Can i charge more on them now? >:) Seem your guys are too happy with them!

[bigbettadan]

No take backs....LOL

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Only ask for the Red head w/white body! :)

[bigbettadan]

We will see.......LOL
Dan

[suphi]

Mine still have muddy color...I want to see some red or white, too.:youtellme:

[Ranchumaniax]

I will try to get some update of my TVR this sunday! Got couple good looking R/W :yess:

[suphi]

Post some pics, Paul. I might buy more. Thinking about going TVR only and no more SVR from now on (except maybe one more red head and white body).

[bigbettadan]

Excellent, another TVR conversion........welcome to the club...LOL
Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

It's really hard to take their picture!!! Seem like i have to upgrade my camera!
So i decided to take a video....here you go!!

photobucket;
http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/Feb22_2009/?action=view&current=ColorBaby.flv

Youtube;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=846VMoY9RZU

[Ranchumaniax]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/846VMoY9RZU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/846VMoY9RZU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[bigbettadan]

Looking good!

Dan

[Casper]

I like the red/white ones.

Mine are all bright yellow, except 1 has not really demelanized yet. He sort of looks like he might have a white colored belly. It's amazing that they're eating triple of what I used to feed them.

[suphi]

Love the white one, but I heard fish with white wen is more difficult to groom.

I'll try to take photo and video of my fish to compare this weekend. Mine is mostly yellow, some with white belly but the color change hasn't quite completed...one is still dark. They're growing very fast during these past 2 weeks, but I also have been feeding them a lot. Just started to introduce bloodworm, but main diet is still daphnia.

[bigbettadan]

Mine were eating bloodworm, BS, and pro pellet from day one. Of course the Itohs were bigger. I have some pushing 2 inches now.......

Dan

[Casper]

I guess I only have one Itoh, and it looks to be about 2 inches including tail. If you're talking standard length then my fish have some catching up to do! When all my ranchus reach 2 inches I'll gorge them with bloodworms.

[Ranchumaniax]

Casper,

You should have half Itho and half Sugiura, if you didnt mention about bloodline when you're ordered.

Paul

[suphi]

My Sugi are catching up in terms of size. Hopefully, I'll still be able to tell who's who in a month.

Paul, when are you putting these CBR on sale?

[Ranchumaniax]

Probably, i will post them on my site after i receive my new shipment in Early April. Plan to get new shipment on April 8th, 2009. Right now im preparing for new arrival.

[suphi]

Finally starting to see some coloration. There's an Itoh with white wen. The Sugi are catching up in size, but still a tad smaller. I had to use really high shutter speed because they swim around really fast.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3647/3391934523_996a57945b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3635/3391934611_308e77fdfa.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3391934693_b14825470d.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/3391934783_c2e8bc055d.jpg

[Ranchumaniax]

๋Jade Seal looking Great!!!

[suphi]

The Jade seal one is starting to develop white pattern on body and back. I can see small changes almost everyday. The yellow color is intensifying, turning orange. Time to overdose the color-enhancing pellets!>:)

Overall, I'm really thrilled with this batch of TVR. I think they are all going to turn out very very nice.

[suphi]

Now they've become CBR!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3410410054_8e45854558.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3410409950_28eb096627.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3409600583_6f0e3a0818.jpg

[suphi]

Top-view pics...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/3410409512_8ec5721187.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3410409596_f64e9c39b4.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3409600125_628fbb0f3a.jpg

[small_ranchu]

They are so cute. First piece from post 45 will be my fav :)

[Casper]

Very nice Suphi! I have a couple that are actually fading from yellow and are looking to be red/whites. I think even one has a partial white head.

[suphi]

More Itoh's pics from this weekend. The one in last pic is still with some black color around his lips, his light yellow color has yet to change. My 3 Sugi's (not pictured here) are lacking behind, still with much black color on their body and fins.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3435239082_93268088b5.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3434433875_2d31cca080.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3435238670_c7d203f831.jpg

[suphi]

And this is latest pic of the big guy that I acquired at the same time as the baby chus. I called him Popcorn because his head reminds me of it. He had some wen issue (?infection) 2 weeks ago but all cleared up after a few days of Oxolinic bath.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3556/3414919879_d32875e381.jpg

[bigbettadan]

Good pics. Mine have colored out, I ended up with none that were completely red, and mine are all Itoh. Most are over 2 inches for me, but they are growing really fast now that I can feed live mosquito larve.....

Dan

[suphi]

I don't think any of my Itoh will be complete red either, the one in the last pic is starting to show some white on his belly and side.

Two of my Sugi's might be complete red, but they're still changing color so it's hard to tell. I'll wait until they develop more distinctive color and pattern before taking close-up pics.

I've been feeding Saki Hikari pellets twice a day, plus several rounds of bloodworms.

I recently automated WC with a pump, so daily WC is very doable now without me lugging water basket around.

[devins23]

Hey Suphi your babies are looking very good!!! Ur doing a great job! And great pictures.

I'm thinking about getting TVRs now - so thank u for converting me LOL :)

[suphi]

Thanks. I do 90-100% daily WC to make sure water quality remains pristine so the chance of these babies getting sick is very low, unless they have some congenital defects that weren't recognized.

In Most Asian countries, only TVR are called ranchu. The rest are lionhead variants (Japanese SVR = Japanese lionhead). So if you're serious about ranchu, TVR is a must-have.

[devins23]

How high do u keep ur water level in ur tank? I've read somewhere that it's good to keep them at around 6" shallow water at this age.

[suphi]

I'm new at TVR keeping also (my first, actually) but according to the pros, 6 inches of water until 6 months old, then 9-12 inches afterward. Shallow water supposedly allows optimal development of young fish, especially the tail which is a very important part of ranchu.

I think that if they have good genes, they'll turn out well enough no matter how you keep them...unless you really mess up big time for whatever reason.

[devins23]

I wonder if at this stage we can keep them at 3-5 gallon a fish. I'm planning on keeping a 6" high water level for several babies with 60-80% water change. But I'm woried I might stunt their growth even with heavy feeding.

[suphi]

Limited space to swim around will definitely stunt their growth. I still think that my current 40G coffee table is too small for these guys (I have six right now, and plan to give two to a friend in June), but you kind of have to make do with what you have.

I was told that the fish from the same batch kept by the breeder are now easily twice the size of mine, lol.

I'm probably going to have to upgrade to a bigger tank/tub in a few months, but what I have right now this is easy for cleaning and WC (10-15 min daily...very doable).

[suphi]

Itoh-Kudo Ranchu from same batch but raised by Mr. Boss

http://www.bossranchu.com/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=474;im age

That's insane, mine still look like babies while his look like grown-ups.:worship:

[Ranchumaniax]

He feeds them with live bloodworm with everyday 100% water change or running water.

[suphi]

I read that he spends $2k a month on food alone. He also seems to think that Jungo (?spelling) is the best pellet food out there.

So, I'm lacking in food department (can't find live bw around here), feeding frequency (can't feed them all day long), constant stream of fresh water (not practical due to $$$), and space (can't do much about it). It's an eye opener to see what the pros can do with baby fish for sure.

[bigbettadan]

Mine are growing well, some pushing 3 inches, and developing headgrowth. Live food( I feed live mosquito larvae)does make a big difference.........

Dan

[devins23]

Hey Dan, do u treat the bloodworms before you feed them to ur fishes? Methelyne blue? Salt dip?

Thanks.

[bigbettadan]

My bloodworms(red ML) are hakari frozen, so no on those. On my live native mosquito hatch, I don't have too much problem. I am culturing daphina in the same tub too, though I try not to feed those to the older fish and save them for fry this summer. The main thing is vigilance so you don't have mosquito's flying around..........

Dan

[small_ranchu]

My bloodworms(red ML) are hakari frozen, so no on those. On my live native mosquito hatch, I don't have too much problem. I am culturing daphina in the same tub too, though I try not to feed those to the older fish and save them for fry this summer. The main thing is vigilance so you don't have mosquito's flying around..........

Dan

Dan,
What is the proper way of vigilance? I can get mosquito larvae easily but I am afraid for the next step.

[bigbettadan]

Daily harvesting is the main thing to avoid adulthood.......... ie bloodsucking..LOL

[suphi]

Not quite the caliber of the chus raised by Mr. Boss but hey they're my babies. May be they'll catch up in size in a month or two.

The top left and top right ones are turning red.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3466969796_b3284dd1d1_o.jpg

Some are showing more wen growth than others.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3466154365_57045a3ec9_o.jpg

[bigbettadan]

It looks like the top left one has nice potential tail.....

Dan

[5ivedrops]

:worship:
wow

[suphi]

Had to starve the one with white body yesterday (overfed with pellets, became inactive). Seems back to normal now. They move around so fast, but I have better luck with photos while they're in a basket like this.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3377/3487062245_3cf066cfbb_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3487878594_605a40ca38_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3487878674_e9c504da8b_o.jpg

[devins23]

Wow almost 2" - they're looking really good. How often do u feed them? Still the same amount since u got them or less? Thanks!

[suphi]

Same amount. Unfortunately, lost the white one today...still bummed about it. I've been trying to give more pellets as blood worms are $$$ but they became less active with it. It's very easy to overfeed with pellets and I'm gonna have to be more careful from now on.

[bekko]

Bloodworms are mostly water. An ounce of pellets is equivalent (or has the same pollution potential) as about three ounces of bloodworms.

-steve

[suphi]

Apparently so, Steve. I consider it a learning experience this time and have picked up quite a few things from raising these guys. I can definitely do better next round now that I'm getting a hang of what and how much to feed during each stage of development. There is a bit of a learning curve here.

[Sonny]

Hi folks! I'm happy to have found this forum. And this thread in particular. I also got some BBTVR from Paul this past Feb. and am very pleased with their health. Here's a current pic of my babies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/jclaffy/My%20Goldfish/TVR.jpg

[devins23]

Wow great mix of colors there Sonny. Are u raising them in a pond?

[suphi]

Very nice color. They look more developed than mine, except in the wen department. Do you keep them outdoor?

[mikroll]

suphi have you tried steam egg yet?

[suphi]

Not yet. I know Paul likes to feed his fish with it. Every time my wife made one it ended up in my stomach instead, lol.

[Sonny]

Wow great mix of colors there Sonny. Are u raising them in a pond?

Very nice color. They look more developed than mine, except in the wen department. Do you keep them outdoor?

Yes, they are living outside.

I am a bit concerned about their lack of wen development. I feed blood worms twice daily and crushed Pro-Gold pellets a couple times a day. They also have access to all the carpet algae they can eat. Any thoughts on how to improve their diet?

[suphi]

The experts say that shallow water (6 inches only) and high protein diet are very important for wen development. You may have to feed protein diet more often, but watch out for overfeeding. In Thailand, they feed these guys almost all day long.

You should see Mr. Boss's fish from same batch (they're on his website in the forum section), they look fully mature with huge wen with deep colors like yours...quite a sight to behold. Fish raised in Thailand grow at a much faster rate due to high temp which allows them to feed all day.

[suphi]

Here are ranchu from our batch raised in Thailand. You have to log in to see.

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=280

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=279

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=278

[suphi]

If you can't see the pics check my profile and then Album.

[Sonny]

Here are ranchu from our batch raised in Thailand. You have to log in to see.


I wonder why mine don't look like that. :youtellme:

[devins23]

LOL.

It's possible that the ones Mr.Boss kept and raised are the bigger and better quality babies. I mean aside from the way he raises them, his batch probably already had an advantage from the start?

[bigbettadan]

Yes, High protein(live food really helps too) food is necessary for head development. I sent pics of my BBTVR from Paul to a few of the guys on here before I left town, and you can see the good headgrowth.......

Dan

[Sonny]

Yes, High protein(live food really helps too) food is necessary for head development. I sent pics of my BBTVR from Paul to a few of the guys on here before I left town, and you can see the good headgrowth.......

Dan

Can you post your pictures to this thread?

[bigbettadan]

No, but if you email me bigbettadan at aim do_t com , I can send you them when I get home from work.

Dan

[suphi]

Just found out today that my local Petsmart stocks all kinds of frozen foods (blood worms, brine shrimp, etc.). Now I'm in fish food heaven, no more freeze-dried stuff. Lets see if I can groom my TVR a little better this time with higher-quality food.

I'm going to feed less pellets, as every time I give too much of that they swim head down right after.

[suphi]

Sonny, our fish are still young. If you keep feeding live food (high protein), they might start to grow more wen. Mine look a bit underdeveloped but I think their wen is about right for their size.

[devins23]

Just found out today that my local Petsmart stocks all kinds of frozen foods (blood worms, brine shrimp, etc.). Now I'm in fish food heaven, no more freeze-dried stuff. Lets see if I can groom my TVR a little better this time with higher-quality food.

I'm going to feed less pellets, as every time I give too much of that they swim head down right after.

Suphi - just a heads up - the frozen food from Petland makes the water VERY cloudy, make sure u rinse it several times. Petland also carries live brine shrimp and bloodworms.

[devins23]

Oops sorry I didn't realize u said petsmart not petland - I always get this two mixed up, LOL.

[small_ranchu]

Suphi - just a heads up - the frozen food from Petland makes the water VERY cloudy, make sure u rinse it several times. Petland also carries live brine shrimp and bloodworms.

Is there anything you need to do b4 feeding live SB or BW from Petland or LFS?

[suphi]

Fed frozen bloodworms today, they didn't cloud the water at all (they don't have Hikari bloodworms, but have everything else Hikari). I bought bloodworms, baby brine shrimp-too small, and brineshrimp). So far I like bloodworms the best (brineshrimp does cause cloudy water).

I just thawed and dumped it in. I do daily WC for my TVR tank, so water quality is not an issue. My fish stayed at the bottom of the tank for a few min after feed, but not swimming head down and became active soon after. Better than pellets.

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Fed frozen bloodworms today, they didn't cloud the water at all (they don't have Hikari bloodworms, but have everything else Hikari). I bought bloodworms, baby brine shrimp-too small, and brineshrimp). So far I like bloodworms the best (brineshrimp does cause cloudy water).

I just thawed and dumped it in. I do daily WC for my TVR tank, so water quality is not an issue. My fish stayed at the bottom of the tank for a few min after feed, but not swimming head down and became active soon after. Better than pellets.

Do not thawn! Just break it and feed! Slow drop from freeze stage are more fresh!

[suphi]

http://akamai.edeal.com//images/catalog3684/folder24579/img3040947med.jpg

Bought this cone feeder a while back. Maybe I should start using it with the worms?:youtellme:

[thomasn]

that's for live worms

[ktranchu]

Cone feeders are great for frozenblood worms, it gives time for the bloodworms to thaw. It is also fun to see them slurp it up like spaghetti.

[suphi]

It works pretty well so far, the fish know how to suck the worms out right away. Kinda convenient, drop the frozen cube in there and forget about it. Looks like it's going to be handy in the morning when I'm in a rush to leave for work.

[Sonny]

I got some live brine shrimp from the lfs today and fed some to my TVR. They loved it! It was fun watching them eat with such gusto. So, let's see if it helps with wen development.

FYI, their diet is now:

- frozen Hikari blood worms twice a day
- live brine shrimp twice a day
- crushed ProGold pellets twice a day
- carpet algae on demand
- any bug that falls into their tank and they can fit in their mouth

[bigbettadan]

You should see a improvement in wen development with that feeding schedule...
Dan

[suphi]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3655/3507797915_7abcd6ef74.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3508609158_f59902c64e.jpg

Missed one fish who's swimming around somewhere underneath the basket (couldn't catch him). They have bigger belly this week. The one with white wen is still skinny but I'm working on it. I don't know if I want to push any more food than this. What do you think? :youtellme:

[bigbettadan]

Looks like they are coming along nicely..........

Dan

[suphi]

Fed everybody steamed egg yesterday (SVR and TVR), they loved it. We made it Thai-style with some ground pork and fish sauce (I had to scoop out the pork first, not sure they can digest that).

[small_ranchu]

Why do we need ground prok? I only put fish sauce though.

[suphi]

The pork was for me, not for the fish. The steamed egg was meant for me, the fish just got some leftover.

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Here are some of mine TVR bred by Mr. Boss
Now feeding with only bloodworm for wen growth.
Hopefully in couple weeks, We can see some wen development.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/March2/002.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/March2/001.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/March2/005.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/March2/013.jpg

[suphi]

They look nice and fat, with good coloration too. How much and how often do you feed them?

I used 1 cube of bloodworm for each feed (5 fish), do you think I should feed more?

[King_oF_Ranchu]

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/xxxxxxxxxxxx/March2/009.jpg

[King_oF_Ranchu]

Well...for me at this point. I let's them eat as much as they're want.
Then i suck out bloodworm that left over. And i feed them every 2-3 hrs.
Because my water are about 70-72F
Here is a video;


<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v3YiuB181JY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v3YiuB181JY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>

[bigbettadan]

Paul,

Did you get the Itoh pics I sent you??

Dan

[Ranchumaniax]

Yes, Dan! I got it!
Yours look more ranchu than mine.
Mine, i have to work on wen growth!
You should post update pictures on here!

[suphi]

Well, I'll post them for Dan...lol

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3513358159_05aa5a0452.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3613/3513358535_5cd2df7432.jpg

I'm gonna try to slam mine with more blood worms (fats and proteins, mmm). Gotta get them to grow a bit more.

[suphi]

I also recorded some video tonight. Ranchu vs blood worms, ranchu always win.:yess:

http://gallery.me.com/thanthipm#100258

[bigbettadan]

Thanks

Gary stresses the importance of a high protein diet for early wen development... He is so right..

I took pics of Mita fry tonight, I hope to have the Big D's Ranchu and Betta Ranch website up this weekend!

Dab

[Cincy Ranchu]

The top picture on yesterdays post has an incredible peduncle, I can't tel from the focu is the ring of scales at the base of the tail complete or broken by a fin ray?

[bigbettadan]

Nope...... A complete bracelet........... I am very pleased........

Dan

[suphi]

Of all my TVRs, I have high hope for this one. He still needs to gain some more weight. I'm home this weekend and have been feeding every 3 hours. With frozen foods, I can just keep feeding...couldn't really do the same with pellets.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3519442001_22e4fcef94.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3626/3520256660_a48194dfc0.jpg

[bigbettadan]

Yes, I saw that one in your other pics, it sticks out with its potential. The key question is how the tail shoulders will mature, but it looks very promising!

Dan

[devins23]

These tvrs are 4 months old now right? How big are they suppose to be now from head to tail tip - assuming proper care. How old before these reach 3" and 4"? Thanks.

[eros]

Very nice, Suphi.

My guess is that its 2.5 inches

[suphi]

I haven't really measured my fish, but they're probably somewhere between 2.5-3 inches from head to tailtip.

Next round of Paul's imported TVRs will be AAA-grade, better start your savings.>:)

[devins23]

The new ones arriving are from the same batch though right?

Mine are still 2 to 2 1/2 inches but they have grown by 1/2 an inch already since I got them last week from Paul - thanks to heavy feeding of frozen bloodworms. I just hope mine can catch up in a month.

[bigbettadan]

I have one R/W Itoh that is 3', but most are 2.5. I don't worry about size as much a nice even development and wen growth. By August, I am sure they will be around 4....

Dan

[devins23]

Mine needs help on that department also :)

Can the body be a little wider than the head?

[bigbettadan]

Sure............Ultimately you want them wide thick and powerful from head to tail, not fat and pudgy....... think bulldog.

Dan

[devins23]

I've been feeding my babies only bloodworms - should I start feeding them a little bit of saki hikari growth pellet or the hikari lionhead so that they can get a variety of food?

Is a frozen bloodworms only diet good enough for now? When can I add pellets?

Thanks.

[bigbettadan]

yes, I would mix.............

Dan

[suphi]

I'm doing blood worms only for now. Interestingly, the Sugi's wen are now bigger than Itoh's. They're catching up nicely in the wen department. Will post some pics this weekend.

[suphi]

Sugi's with wen (center and bottom-left)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3539599153_b3f8978132.jpg


Junior & Senior (almost fit inside the mouth)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3557/3540412210_c1d5787d1e.jpg

[suphi]

My fav Itoh with my fav SVR "Popcorn"
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2145/3539636547_411817f397.jpg

[eros]

Well, Suphi, your "tiny" tvr's have grown well. Any plans of adding a female SVR to partner up w/ "popcorn?"

[suphi]

Pop already has 3 (might be 4) females in his tank. The eggs are already killing me so I'm trying to avoid buying females. I've been drooling over one of Paul's large SVR, though.

[suphi]

Gave 2 Sugi's to a good friend of mine today. Now I'm left with 2 Itoh and 1 Sugiura. I'll miss the two babies, but I'm also ready to buy more...grins.

[bigbettadan]

Here are my Itoh pics from yesterday. They are really looking great!

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww151/bigbettadan/Itoh3.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww151/bigbettadan/Itoh5.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww151/bigbettadan/Itoh2.jpg


http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww151/bigbettadan/Itoh4.jpg

[suphi]

#2's caudal peduncle is incredible.

Did near complete WC 2 days ago plus algae scrubbing. One of my TVR floated a few mins after WC, the others showed signs of gill spasm. Had to move them to emergency tank overnight, and redo the water change. Today, the fish with white wen has bleeding on the left gill...ugh.

Anyway, it's tough to say this was from new water or infection that just happened. I'm treating them with antibiotic now *fingers crossed*

[bigbettadan]

Yes, number 2 has a exceptional peduncle and bracelet. 1 is my favorite overall, with a great head,body and peduncle, though his bracelet is slightly broken. I am pretty sure 3 is a female........... I can't wait till next spring to spawn them.

Sorry to hear about your issues, let me know if you need anything, thats what a Kai is all about.

Dan

[suphi]

Gills look better this morning. I'm doing Prazi + Oxolinic combination so hopefully this will help. Gotta get this over with before the new TVRs come in.

[bigbettadan]

Prazi is good for Parasite problems, you think it's flukes?? Or bacterial?

Dan

[suphi]

Could be anything from exposure to new water or to the calico (had to move him back to the main tank right away).

The bleeding was barely visible this morning, I could only see it from side view so it's improved in that regard...but I'll have to assess the fish again this eve. I should've snapped a photo yesterday, not much to see now.

I think my broad-spectrum "cocktail" is fairly benign so it shouldn't hurt the fish, we'll see.

[suphi]

I don't see the bleeding now. The fish is swimming around but still not quite robust as others. Good thing I only have 3 fish left so the tank isn't crowded at all. Now all I can do is wait.

[suphi]

I can't even tell that fish was sick today. No signs of bleeding, or abnormal movement of gill cover. The fish appears back to baseline. The recovery is quite fast (2 days). I'm still gonna finish the 4-day course of meds.:yess:

[bigbettadan]

Hmm....... That sounds alot like a chemical reaction to a change in water perameters.... I would check with your local waterworks to see if any extra spikes or goodies have been added to your water supply. I had that happened to me once. And even Amquel could not make it safe to use. I had to use a cantiser filter with zeolite to remove it.... this was with bettas when I lived in western IN.........

Dan

[suphi]

Could be...the recovery is very rapid. The bleeding, though, was quite profound and nasty-looking I thought the fish was a gonner. Anyway, it's all good now. It's strange that I also did WC for my main tank the same day and my SVRs were fine.

[eros]

Thats great news, Suphi.

Do you add salt? I usually add salt at 0.2-0.3% to my tanks and pond.

[suphi]

I don't do salt unless I really have to (ick, etc.), but then I'd still prefer modern medicine for an obvious reason. I do daily WC for the TVRs and every other day for the SVRs. Imagine the amount of salt I have to stock.:youtellme:

I love using high temp with sick fish, though. Still going at 82F for the TVR tank.

Suphi

[eros]

Well, salt is relatively cheap. I buy them at Home depot for $3.99 and its a 50 lb bag. I just do it for prophyla purposes. I am aware there are strains that are salt resistant.

[devins23]

Well, salt is relatively cheap. I buy them at Home depot for $3.99 and its a 50 lb bag. I just do it for prophyla purposes. I am aware there are strains that are salt resistant.

Hey Eros what's the brand name of that salt? I've been using lfs salt and it cost $8 a box(the biggest container) and that only last me a few days. I use 1tablespoon per gallon and do daily water change in my aquariums.

[Ranchumaniax]

These are great for fish...Cheap and same as your lfs salt.
Any homedepot or Lowes should carry these salt in stock. :thumbUp:
Save some money and visit .... www. xxxxxxxxxxxx.com >:)

Morton Solar Salt (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100351742&marketID=34&locStoreNum=4109&categoryID=500398)

[eros]

Sorry, I meant to spell prophylactic purposes.

>Devins23: Its the Diamond Crystal brand Solar Salt (Blue bag). Hope that helps. Here's the link: http://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/Water-Softening/Products/Solar-Salt.aspx

Do not buy the pellets (yellow bag).

[suphi]

More photos...I have 3 babies left, currently. I may have to move some of these guys in with the SVR to make room for new ones. Gave the Sugi with the best wen to my friend, but I got better ones coming.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3582207682_d6d166c756.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3582207772_51b885c0be.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3581395903_c36dbfbdd4.jpg

[eros]

Suphi, i love how theyre developing. I would like to see how they swim from top & side views, video please?

[suphi]

Video...

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Might have to wait a bit for the HQ version, youtube processings have been slow. They're very strong swimmers compared to my SVRs.

[devins23]

They are looking great Suphi, it looks like they've gained quite a bit of weight. Have they had any growth spurt now that there are only 3 of them in the tank?

[suphi]

I haven't seen any growth spurt, just slow and steady rate. Actually, I'd like them to gain even more bulk, but I'm afraid to push diet as the smallest one with belly has a tendency to float when he ate too much.

[eros]

Nothing wrong with a slowly but surely approach.

[bigbettadan]

They need some Sun to get that color out...........

Dan

[eros]

I agree. Is that a set-up you can do, Suphi?


Ill have to post my pictures up later.

[suphi]

Still negotiating my wife about tank placement, she gets the final say on what goes where at home. Right now that tank is hidden inside a bathroom, lol. Unfortunately, she hates having fish tanks in the house.

Anyway, if I moved them to my main tank which is a likely scenarios since I have 2 new TVRs coming then they'll get some sunlight for sure. On the other hand, the new TVRs may not get enough sunlight...:badidea:

[Ranchumaniax]

Human made light should do the trick!
Not really sure what you guys call, but i use these type to keep my black ranchu and work on some color of my fish.

link........ (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18369/si1383185/cl0/coralifefreshwateraqualightdeluxedoublelinearstrip 484x65watt)

[suphi]

Thanks for the link, Paul. I have a few options about tanning treatments for my baby chus, lol. One is to buy high intensity light as Paul suggest (my puny 24" T5 isn't good enough, obviously). The other option is to move the tank near a window where they can get natural sunlight. Or I can do both.

[suphi]

The orange ones (Itoh, Sugiura) are developing good wen. The white head (Itoh), not so much.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/3596529604_a84f480e64.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3371/3596529738_6445f3e8cb.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3350/3595721735_bfff3b012f.jpg

[bigbettadan]

The white heads seem to develop wen a little slower. But they will catch up.

Dan

[suphi]

I still have some hope with the white wen one, lol. Been feeding them all day this weekend. Man, they can really eat.

[suphi]

As most of you know, this was my first attempt raising TVR fry. I've learned quite a bit from this and I think that I'm not doing too badly overall. I also think that I could do much better next time. Here are my thoughts so far...

1. Grooming baby TVR is very time consuming and requires certain level of dedication. It's almost not worth it for my to raise BBR considering the amount of time and effort I had to put into this. I'd rather buy CBR next time, pay a little more, let the breeder groom them for a bit, and get the exact fish that I really like.

2. Frequent/heavy feeding is very important for early development especially if you're aiming for wide back, thick peduncle, good wen, etc. I still think that I could've fed them more back when they were younger. The key, I think, is to maintain a bit of belly when they're young...for optimal growth. Frequent feeding also encourage them to swim around and build up muscle tones through exercises.

3. Type of food is also important early on. Live/frozen non-processed food is a must if you want good wen development. Pellets is great for quick weight gain but can cause swimming issues if you overfeed them.

4. Sunlight or strong lighting gear is important if you want deep coloration. My fish are still pale but hopefully this can be corrected in the future.

5. Shallow water is also important for grooming the tail (spreading out like leaf instead of folding in, but also soft enough that the outer rim flows freely when they swim).

6. Frequent water change is really a must. These guys (young fish) are super poop machines, they can eat and poop all day. Water goes bad very quickly if you're not careful.

I'm getting two show-grade TVRs soon, assuming that they survived the shipment (lol). It will be interesting to measure my own chus against them, as they're around the same age.

[bigbettadan]

I agree with your excessments, except the first one. Grooming, or even better, breeding your own from egg to champion, is what it is all about for me!

Dan

[devins23]

Overall I think you did an excellent job raising ur tvrs. It is very time consuming to raise young ones but I think it's more rewarding in the end. Mine looks like they stopped growing, LOL :) , but hopefully I'm wrong. And my TVR - turned SVR decided to become TVR again! I'm so happy cause he has the best wen growth and side view profile. Pics will come soon - I tried taking pics with my iPhone but nothing good came out....

[suphi]

Devins, you're gonna need really bright light to get good photos with the iphone.

One trick that I learn with the iphone camera is to press the shutter button and hold it, release the finger when you get good focus and framing (i.e. when the fish stops swimming). Another trick is to feed pellets, and when they pause and chew take the snapshot.

[eros]

Dang it! Apple just came out with a 32GB iPhone w/ video. Im not qualified for the upgarde since its only been 11 months:badidea:.


Good idea with the pellets, Suphi. I didnt think of that.

[suphi]

Moved these guys to the main tank (80G). The 40G will be used to QT my new TVRs. One or two TVRs will be moved back, haven't decided who gets to stay with the new guys yet. I have to say that they also look pretty good from side view.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3625087657_b4cfa7c5b7.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/3625904202_5242864a09.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3625904064_0f3a124603.jpg

[marlin08]

beautiful, top and side view!

[SeaWitch]

Your fish are stunning!!! I love the one from Paul and it seems that your babies are going to be really awesome, as well!!!:exact:

[suphi]

Here are the 2 fish that got delivered today. They're still stressed out so I didn't try hard to take their photos. The red head is particularly jumpy whenever I get close so didn't get a good picture of him.

These guys are big for a 6-mo old fish. The red head is 4.5 inches from mouth to tail tip, the white head is almost half an inch shorter. These photos don't do them justice as they look so much better in person. Now I just have to make sure that the QT process goes smoothly.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3633124365_2200e48977.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2463/3633938324_f44c70cf6b.jpg

[bigbettadan]

That is good size for that age. Mine from the BBTVR batch are pushing 4 with tail, but not like these. I love them both.

Dan

[suphi]

I'm very happy about this purchase, but at the same time quite nervous about their health especially during this initial QT period...lol.

[eros]

Lovin that redhead. Maybe you can ship them to Dan for breeding:exact:

[bigbettadan]

Don't worry, I getting some from that batch too.......

Dan

[eros]

I know you are, Dan. I'm on the same boat as you.

[bigbettadan]

I am most excited about breeding back the Itoh/kudo with the Sug/kudo crosses, as there are things I like better in both...........

Dan

[suphi]

My new fish started to swim around and tried to eat the sponge filter. I might have to start feeding lightly this evening. I think they're also ready for Prazi.

[small_ranchu]

They are nice... Congratulations.

PS. These fish doesn't belong to "tiny TVR" title. They are huge. :)

[suphi]

Fred, you're right. I'll make a new thread on these guys.

[suphi]

They've grown a bit more since I put them with the SVRs.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2442/3651500191_8cc9c02f4d.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/3651500023_d1219e9911.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3651499915_aa2cf06b4c.jpg

[suphi]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/3704876981_82d009ac5e.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3704876861_41a51dc083.jpg

Taken with my new toy (Olympus e-P1). The quality isn't as good as those from my workhorse gear (Nikon D3), but I absolutely love this camera because it's so tiny and portable. The one in the first pic is turning orange now.

[devins23]

Beautiful! I'm glad one is turning red - gives us hope for the rest of us keeping them indoor. Thanks for the update pics!

[eros]

Looks good, suphi. Can I ask you about the fish on the last pix? is the tail okay?

[suphi]

That one's tail is fine, it looked that way in the pic because the fish was moving around.

[suphi]

As per suggestions from Paul and Dan, I've been feeding these guys more for the past 2 weeks. I have had to feed them separately in the floating basket to make sure they get more food than the larger SVRs who tend to gobble up everything in their path.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3540/3812513744_711c436975.jpg
The fish in the middle has good wen but the body is a little short and looks a bit off (looks great from sideview, though). The one up top has really long slim body and not so much wen, l want to see if I can grow some more wen with extra blood worms.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/3811698091_077347a470.jpg
I still have high hope for this one. He used to be all yellow, now turning white even on the wen. I'm hoping to fatten him up more, without him developing SBD. I'm also working hard on my larger TVRs, but will save that topic for another time.

[bigbettadan]

Already I see a big improvement, good job....

Dan

[harzan]

Nice fish!