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Old 03-17-2012, 02:56 PM   #21
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i have jannets fish from the start and added streamsons fish to cross over the years i have calicos but cant keep the blue what is the best line cross you found to keep the blue in ?
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:49 PM   #22
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Default blue

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicsveils View Post
i have jannets fish from the start and added streamsons fish to cross over the years i have calicos but cant keep the blue what is the best line cross you found to keep the blue in ?
i have found that intense light algie,spinach,and good genes keep the blue.after 10yrs usually the blue fades anyway.i hope this helps
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:27 AM   #23
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I am starting to think, like bettas, we need to breed for spread and branching vs length. I think the Brits are doing it, be it maybe unintentionally.

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Old 05-19-2012, 11:27 AM   #24
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Default Calico Philliey's

Besides lacking blue, the Calico Philly needs black in its' tail. While this trait exists, it seems to be transient

It is also important to note that the English veils have moved towards a ryukin/fantail body type the Philly has a Oranda body base. I am concerned now that 15 people or so have the EV that they will cross to the PV and end up with a mutt. Strategy and care for the historical genetics are a serious concern.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:48 PM   #25
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I think the risk may come from the hobbyists who actually have the different varieties of veils. As I'm a "purist" I never actually did any cross or outcross of the veils. I mentioned it a few times to save my last UK metallic veil and also my last Philly but never did any outcross. Now, this particular Philly is 7-8 years old, it floats on one side and cannot swim straight anymore...

As mentioned before my intention is to cross the remaining metallic UK veil to a metallic from UK calico spawn. Then, the offsprings will still be pure English. Unless someone would swap some UK metallics with some UK calicos...
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:42 PM   #26
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I love red metallics, I hope you can work both.

I was just looking at pics in the latest gsgb bulletin, of Mills fish. The caudals had wide spread, but short. Frilled tail skriting, caused from ray branching. Interesting.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:13 AM   #27
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Just a warning to people who have both Philly veils and UK veils.

I spawned a UK veil and a Chinese broadtail (tricolor metallic, imported). All of the progeny are forked tail, like standard ryukin.

So, it is most likely that there is more than one locus that produces the broadtail/veiltail phenotype.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:23 AM   #28
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After studying my Uk veils, vs the Philly veils, the tail structure is different, as well as the body type. It reminds me of half-moon bettas(uk veil) vs veil tail bettas(Philly). Jmo
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:10 AM   #29
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Default English vs Philly

To BB Dan. The English veil was a Philly veil at one time. Since you are a trained judge I would like to hear from you what the English did or did not do to the fish or what we did. I know Thomma like a thin elongated veil. What do you see?
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:38 AM   #30
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They just selected for spread vs length. One of the biggest reason to do this, the fish will be able to handle it longer, ie deportment. And it just looks impressive. Very similar to the Bristol tail vs normal tail.

Dan
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Thanks bigbettadan
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